New ruling on national park filming

[glbeas]

 

[glbeas]

This looks to be a steppingstone for the NP service to relax its stance on all forms of photography, the focus on fees ruled to be for crewed situations. Hopefully there will be a trend towards photographers not being hassled by an overeager ranger for setting up a tripod and camera to shoot a landscape. I hear theres places you cant shoot anything with a professional looking camera without money being demanded.

 

[AgX]

Being ignorant on such fees application in nature reserves in general, I would like to learn about the the pros and cons, though such quest likely would be better handled in the Ethics forum.

 

[Trail Images]

I've photographed as an individual in USA National Parks for years. I've never had ANYONE challenge me on photographing while using MF & LF gear. So, not exactly a PS or iPhone snapshots. I will admit I only photograph during sunrise and sunset in remote areas. So mostly removed from any observations from others. However, I've seen many photographic workshops and movie crews at sites. Most of them did obtain required permits.

 

[ic-racer]

I have only been harrassed once in a park, but since then I never walk around with the tripod open and a camera on top. I keep the camera in a bag and tripod closed, and move in and out quickly. I laugh at people that indicate large format photography is somehow slow. Sometimes when I'm out with my 8x10 my heart is racing. That is the excitement of photography.

 

[BrianShaw]

I hear theres places you cant shoot anything with a professional looking camera without money being demanded.

I’ve experienced this more in England than in the US. When challenged I’m fast to state that I’m a wealthy dentist on holiday doing recreational photography. In the US I’ve had more “problems “ with other visitors standing in front of my camera as if I was invisible.

I really hope that NPS, and the like, will focus their energy on real professional film crews but only when their activities obstruct access or the natural experience of other visitors.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I doubt if anyone here paid any fees to shoot Mesa Arch in Canyonlands National Park.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I’ve experienced this more in England than in the US. When challenged I’m fast to state that I’m a wealthy dentist on holiday doing recreational photography. In the US I’ve had more “problems “ with other visitors standing in front of my camera as if I was invisible.

I really hope that NPS, and the like, will focus their energy on real professional film crews but only when their activities obstruct access or the natural experience of other visitors.

A wealthy dentist, so you must have a Hasselblad..

 

[KenS]

On the few occasions I have 'set up' my hardware to make an exposure I have never been told I am not 'allowed' to so do. But the 'funniest was when I had set up my 8x10 and was under the darkcloth and could hear tan 'under-educated' group trying to guess my 'subject matter'.. so I came out from under the dark-cloth and 'folded it up over the top of my camera to have a 'peek' at the group.
i almost fell over laughing when I heard one of the females say (loud enough for me to over-hear her statement) "Oh dear...he's got his camera up-side down.

I had a "really" hard time keeping a 'straight face.

Ken

 

[Sirius Glass]

On the few occasions I have 'set up' my hardware to make an exposure I have never been told I am not 'allowed' to so do. But the 'funniest was when I had set up my 8x10 and was under the darkcloth and could hear tan 'under-educated' group trying to guess my 'subject matter'.. so I came out from under the dark-cloth and 'folded it up over the top of my camera to have a 'peek' at the group.
i almost fell over laughing when I heard one of the females say (loud enough for me to over-hear her statement) "Oh dear...he's got his camera up-side down.

I had a "really" hard time keeping a 'straight face.

Ken

Ken, your really should get that lens fixed.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Bring on the youtuber's and vloggers and all their trampling and trash, only now there will be less money to clean it up and maintain things.

 

[Trail Images]

Bring on the youtuber's and vloggers and all their trampling and trash, only now there will be less money to clean it up and maintain things.

No doubt it is getting worse all the time out there. I came upon what I thought was spray paint damage in a remote area of Joshua Tree NP a year ago. I took iPhone shots and sent them to the park headquarters. After sharing the photos with a few others they said it appeared to be colored smoke flare / bomb damage of sorts. 3 colors of yellow, blue and red.
Most recently two well known Large Format photogs shared video streams from Zion NP and the scratched wall graffiti in some remote canyons was beyond belief. Having been to those same remote canyons in past years myself I can recall how pristine and quiet they were.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Most recently two well known Large Format photogs shared video streams from Zion NP and the scratched wall graffiti in some remote canyons was beyond belief. Having been to those same remote canyons in past years myself I can recall how pristine and quiet they were.

We've been to CO for the last three consecutive years, and just this past Christmas was our first time to actually GET INTO Rocky Mountain National Park and hike. I was absolutely HORRIFIED and the amount of initials that were carved into the Aspen trees on our way down to Alberta Falls. It was absolutely disgusting.

Although I suppose it's unfair to assign all of that vandalism strictly to photographers and videographers though, since most of that is done by the general public.

 

[Trail Images]

since most of that is done by the general public.

I totally agree. For the most part those trying to make a decent outing are there to protect the environment. But, this is not the world I grew up in anymore and realize it more so as of late.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

On the few occasions I have 'set up' my hardware to make an exposure I have never been told I am not 'allowed' to so do. But the 'funniest was when I had set up my 8x10 and was under the darkcloth and could hear tan 'under-educated' group trying to guess my 'subject matter'.. so I came out from under the dark-cloth and 'folded it up over the top of my camera to have a 'peek' at the group.
i almost fell over laughing when I heard one of the females say (loud enough for me to over-hear her statement) "Oh dear...he's got his camera up-side down.

I had a "really" hard time keeping a 'straight face.

Ken

Oh, I was wondering why my new 4x5 was doing that.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Bring on the youtuber's and vloggers and all their trampling and trash, only now there will be less money to clean it up and maintain things.

Why are they any more slobs than the rest of the visitors?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I couldn't care less about these commercialized RV blogger-whiner types. Why slobs? - because they cause a lot of traffic backup issues, tie up parking lots, clutter trails. And they're multiplying like flies. Now some of them are whining because they're not allowed use photo drones without a permit, and miss the fun of spoiling everyone else's Park experience with those buzzing gadgets. If they want to engender a Theme Park experience, they should go to Disney World instead. But then they'd have to pay, just like they really should in this case.

Of course, due to the current income crisis among many people, they have been seeking new sources of income while sometimes being forced to live in RV's. So I do get it. Note that these complaints are being circulated within RV culture, not among the outdoor genre. And there's a whole new sea change in the Interior Dept, so hard to say what kinds of tweaks to this kind of conversation will be upcoming. I just avoid all such catchy "scenic turnout" places or "must see" trails to begin with.

A bigger source of grief has been the habit of posting GPS coordinates of the sights featured on these many blogs. In the past decade of so, that has exponentially increased the incidents of all kinds of vandalism. Spray paint tagging is rife, carvings on ancient trees, scratching and shooting petroglyphs, standing for selfies on fragile geological features, filming themselves dropping rocks or logs off cliffs, even killing climbers below in a few instances. You name it.

As for that mini-mob at Mesa Arch, a few marbles or banana peels laying around might solve that issue. It is a hundred times worse at the annual Yosemite fire fall event - one more thing worth avoiding. But if that Mesa Arch group was transported there commercially via special bus, or as a formal photo workshop, yes, whoever provided that service would have paid the necessary commercial fee up front first. They certainly all look like workshop types. Note that they guy who took that group shot of them is specifically in the business of photo workshop tours. There's no way something that conspicuous would get past the entrance station without the proper permits. And a special permit was no doubt needed by the dude who once posed his pet mountain lion right inside that arch at dawn.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

...
As for that mini-mob at Mesa Arch, a few marbles or banana peels laying around might solve that issue. It is a hundred times worse at the annual Yosemite fire fall event - one more thing worth avoiding. But if that Mesa Arch group was transported there commercially via special bus, or as a formal photo workshop, yes, whoever provided that service would have paid the necessary commercial fee up front first. They certainly all look like workshop types. Note that they guy who took that group shot of them is specifically in the business of photo workshop tours. There's no way something that conspicuous would get past the entrance station without the proper permits. And a special permit was no doubt needed by the dude who once posed his pet mountain lion right inside that arch at dawn.

I hope they fed the lion before the shoot.

 

[DREW WILEY]

You said it first. Maybe he broke even on the fees by not needing to buy the lion meat that day, and merely waited for the next photographer to show up for "lunch".

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You said it first. Maybe he broke even on the fees by not needing to buy the lion meat that day, and merely waited for the next photographer to show up for "lunch".

One of those vloggers.

 

[DREW WILEY]

One more reason to protect mountain lions as apex predators. I don't know if you remember on the other forum back when I got in an argument with a fellow who claims he invented the sport of "trail running". I replied to him, heck no, you didn't. That was someone fleeing a cave bear 20,000 years ago.

A bit too much nonsense time on my hands today. I had planned an all-day darkroom session, but the rain and wind was so high last night that I needed to rake up lots of downfall this morning instead. Raining again now this afternoon.

 

[jeffreyg]

I have photographed as an individual in national parks and many other locations in the US and many other countries most often with the use of a tripod and have never had any problems. However, a couple of years ago I was using my pinhole camera in a local (Miami) city park and was told by a park security guard I couldn't do that and to leave. I had already taken two images so I left. I wrote a letter of complaint to the mayor and received an apology and assurance from the mayor that he would inform the parks department that only commercial photographing ie wedding photographers and crews should have permits.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

 

[Ambrown31]

I am glad to see this ruling. I think the focus should be on disrespectful park guests in general. Not sure how they will deal with that though.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

According to the video, starting at around 3:40, the ruling only affected videographers. Still photographers were not affected by the court ruling as the lawsuit was from a videographer. The regulations still require commercial photographers to pay fees if they're using models or more than a tripod. Check the actual regulations before you go.