New Printer Help For Digital Negatives

Hello all! I have been reading the forum for many years but never posted.

I have been a 4x5 8x10 film user for some 25 year and printed mainly silver and pt/pd for most of this time. Many years ago I bought the epson 2200 thinking I would start printing with it but quickly became frustrated with learning the printing nuances and print settings.

Over the last two year I have returned with better scanning ability and a dedication to learning QTR and have started making very pleasing prints. When I started I had hoped to learn QTR on prints and use that as a stepping stone to make digital negative for Pt/Pd and possibly silver prints.

Although I have been very happy with early results as far as tone control I am far from please with dot patterns that are very distracting in much of my work. I have many images with vast sky, smooth mid to light tones which this "grain" is VERY distracting.

I am aware my printer is ancient and have been looking at several epson option would like to continue QTR use and make usable digital negatives. Was hoping for some insight on newer printer and if this "grain" pattern will be much improved OR maybe others have not had problem with this "grain" while making digital negatives. I Hear lots of the 3800 but what is the difference in the 3880? Also are the 2880 and 3000 a lesser machine?

Just for background info I am using QTR to print on OHP for Pt/Pd and pictorico high gloss white for silver.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Kurt

Haye you done a forum search? Try "QTR grain".

Kurt,
I have made a number of negatives for pt/pd with my 2200 using the standard Epson UltraChrome inks and Pictorico OHP. I use Dan Burkholder's plugin and tweak as needed. For large sky areas you might try blurring the sky. Most often clouds are not "crisp" so some blurring is not noticeable.

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Kurt

I still have an Epson 2200 printer and also have the Epson 3800 printer.

The differences between the Epson 3800 and 3880 are the 3880 uses Epson "Vivid Magenta" ink where the Epson 3800 uses a different magenta ink formulation.

If you look on the internet about printer problems, you will see that many users of the Epson 3800 have had magenta head clog problems. UGH!! From what I have read and understand, the ink formulation tends to drop out of solution and thus clogs the print head.

If you print more than once a week then you might not experience this problem.

My Epson 3800 printer just experienced the problem and I tried various methods to unclog the print head but no luck. What a bummer!!

If I was purchasing a new printer, I would recommend the Epson 3880 because I have not heard of any problem with clogged printer heads. I would also be sure to make a few prints --- at least twice a week.

I am sure others will add to this discussion since it has been discussed before.

Good luck

Thanks,

Phillip I did a search and have already look at as much info as I could find but I did stumble upon a thread that had some great ideas. I tried printing with mostly color ink "greenish" and got much better results still a bit of a problem but much improved. From reading other threads it seems you have developed a mix of PDN chart throb and other techniques would be interested in your methods. I have read and tried most but settled on the QTR technique with adoptions of PDN and Burkholder. I was taking some of the color blocking idea form PDN but was still using Black ink as well (too much as it turns out) Using mostly color now with a much better result.


Jeffery
I have read up and have Burholders book and have adapted some of this techniques but was more interested in controlling the ink output through changing the ink file rather than applying the curve (which often seem to be severe) to the file to be printed. Maybe there is no difference between the two but my understanding is that if I can make most or all of the changes to my ink file the actual photo file is better off. Not sure I am explaining that the best way but would be interested in thoughts. As for my skies and other areas the grain I have been getting if from the actual printer dot pattern and not from the film scan otherwise that idea would work great.

Bruce
Thanks for that input I was not aware of the issue or the ink difference. Would be interested to know if you have done digital negs and if so with both printers and what difference you see between the two?

Thanks,
Kurt

if I can make most or all of the changes to my ink file the actual photo file is better off.

That's the theory. My experience is that this is not generally distinguishable in real prints as long as the curve provides linear output for a full range of tones. The real problem with extreme curves is that there may not be room to make subtle changes to the highlights.

Re colorized negatives: you ought to give PDN a try. The manual is a great read about digital negatives and it can make fine negatives on some printers. You can have a good platinum curve in a couple of hours and it uses the native inks so low investment and no ink swapping. QTR is a useful tool, but there is a lot more profile hacking involved than with other methods, so if you want to make prints, this is usually not the best way to get started.

I would also look into Cone's site. They have a lot of help,. they participate in forums and everything else. Cone supplies a lot of curves that are pre made for different type sod printing. You want a printer with small droplets and I would ask Cone himself what to do... Then it will work with his pre made curves.

Lenny

I think the 1.5 picoliter droplets is one reason why the 1800 makes such fine negatives. This is true of the 1400, too, but Jon only has profiles for the 1800.

lenny said:

I would also look into Cone's site. They have a lot of help,. they participate in forums and everything else. Cone supplies a lot of curves that are pre made for different type sod printing. You want a printer with small droplets and I would ask Cone himself what to do... Then it will work with his pre made curves.

Lenny

Click to expand...

what is PDN? never heard of it.

PDN is a process for making digital negative Precision Digital Negatives by Mark Nelson. Have a lot of interesting ideas and techniques.

Philip interested in you comment on the 1800 and the 1.5 droplet size as many such s the 3880 have a 3 or maybe 3.5 to me that seems like it would make a huge difference in negative quality?

Have alway been interested in Jon Cone inks but do just enough color printing to make me think twice. My plan would be to get a new printer and convert the 2200 to piezography. Although I know the prints look great I still am worried the negative would have this dot pattern and they don't offer the negative ink set for the 2200. I am going to contact him an get more information.


Kurt

if it is to use Cone only epson 1400 is a good and cheap choice

The 1400 is an excellent printer, but the native Durabrite inks do not provide sufficient UV blocking. It makes very fine negatives with Piezography, but Cone does not provide QTR profiles for the 1400 so you will have to make your own.

Thanks to add this, this is why I add the use of cone only or other black gray ink system.


Do you need digital neg for alt process or only for silver print?

I am doing silver and Pt/Pd and am going to attempt carbon printing once I get the digital neg thing figured out. The 1400(now 1430) looks like a very good idea have you had any of the common problems while making negative (banding or pizza wheels).

With the 2200 I sometime get banding but the largest problem is the dot pattern. From all I have read about the piezo digital neg that should pretty much disappear?

phillip was reading on another thread that you have used the cone carbon inks? I do like the idea of being able to print both prints and negs but this seems to not be an option without swapping a few ink cartridges?


Thanks for the info!!

Kurt

I don't use the Cone system for digital negatives -- I just use the standard Piezography ink set and create separate profiles for negatives and prints. No cartridge swapping is required.

there also inksupply innk and bowhaus as software option

Inksupply (MIS) doesn't adhere well to OHP films. Bowhaus only supports Mac OS and Canon printers.

Sorry I thought it will work as MIS suggest it but in fact bowhaus is only for Mac. For the ink I use it with success but I have to put some aquarelle fixer on it to avoid adhesion problem.