new photo paper in the mix, galaxy direct positive

GalaxyPhoto · Jul 21, 2015

Dear friends!
We are super excited to share this news with you. Our Kickstarter campaign is coming out today! We have waited for this and have worked hard to make it happen! We will be glad to see you among our backers and supporters. Please spread the word and together we will bring Galaxy Super Speed Paper to live.
Here is a link to our Kickstarter project where you can find all information about our plans, rewards, and timeline. (Dead Link Removed )
Follow us for updates.

Jim Moore · Jul 21, 2015

GalaxyPhoto said:
Dear friends!
We are super excited to share this news with you. Our Kickstarter campaign is coming out today! We have waited for this and have worked hard to make it happen! We will be glad to see you among our backers and supporters. Please spread the word and together we will bring Galaxy Super Speed Paper to live.
Here is a link to our Kickstarter project where you can find all information about our plans, rewards, and timeline. (Dead Link Removed )
Follow us for updates.

It's nice that your first post on APUG is for the promotion of your Kickstarter project....

Edit: Just Saying........

ciniframe · Jul 21, 2015

Kickstarter for new hyper speed direct positive paper now live

The title says it all. A paper with a speed equivalent to ISO 64
Dead Link Removed

Dr Croubie · Jul 21, 2015

GalaxyPhoto said:
Dear friends!
We are super excited to share this news with you. Our Kickstarter campaign is coming out today! We have waited for this and have worked hard to make it happen! We will be glad to see you among our backers and supporters. Please spread the word and together we will bring Galaxy Super Speed Paper to live.
Here is a link to our Kickstarter project where you can find all information about our plans, rewards, and timeline. (Dead Link Removed )
Follow us for updates.

First thoughts on the kickstarter page:
- RC and Higher ISO rate high with me, 2 of the 3 drawbacks of the Ilford product solved right there.
- The last drawback of the Ilford product is that it's blue-sensitive only. What about this product, is it still ortho or can it take some greens or even yellow? Somewhere said very dark red safelight needed, so it's not panchro, but anything more than blue-only will be appreciated.
- Some of the rewards are "chemical kits". So does it need special processing with these kits? Or can it work in any old paper or film dev?
- The biggest downside I can see from that page was the line "Additionally, if the demand is sufficient enough, we might continue production of this photo paper on a regular basis" (emphasis mine). Kickstarter (in my opinion) is meant to be a platform for getting businesses running, not just to pre-order goods or one-off runs. And I don't want to back a project, get my 25 sheets, absolutely love it, go to order more and find out that that's all I'm ever getting. So I'd be happier with a bit more optimism in turning this into a viable business (like many others have done). Of course you can't answer that question yet without knowing demand, which is what the kickstarter is partly intended to do, but I'd prefer something more along the lines of it being a definite plan than a potential one-off.

Other than that, count me in.

480sparky · Jul 21, 2015

Hmmm. I wonder if special chemicals are needed to develop it.

Pioneer · Jul 21, 2015

Hope it flies. I've backed this one but so far my bets on film type products have not been real successful.

wildbill · Jul 21, 2015

Cool. I'd try it.

ciniframe · Jul 21, 2015

480sparky said:
Hmmm. I wonder if special chemicals are needed to develop it.

They said it is reversal processed, but not with the need for re-exposure. I actually want to use it in regular developer as a negative so I can make several prints. The ISO of 64 is what interest me.

Roger Cole · Jul 22, 2015

Ian Grant said:
Ilfochrome/Cibachrome was on a transluscent white PET (Polyester) base it's not the same as Resin coated, the firsts water proof papers were made for Military use (initially and were PE Polyethylene Encapsulated. PET is not normal Polyethylene it's Polyethylene terephthalate.

Sheet films are also coated on PET, 35mm and 120 are normally coated on acetate base.

Ian

Well yes and no. Cibachrome gloss was indeed as described. But they did make Cibachrome, for a while anyway, on a regular RC paper base with pearl finish. I used quite a bit of it. I don't know if that version continued into the renamed Ilfochrome product or not. I was a broke high school and then college student at the time so I used it because it was about half the price of the PET gloss stuff, which made it not that much more than Kodak Type R (2203) that I had started printing with because it was even less expensive. But the comparatively stone simple processing of Cibachrome made it worth paying a little more (but not worth it to me then, as I simply really couldn't afford it, for the PET gloss.)

Roger Cole · Jul 22, 2015

Dr Croubie said:
First thoughts on the kickstarter page:
- RC and Higher ISO rate high with me, 2 of the 3 drawbacks of the Ilford product solved right there.
- The last drawback of the Ilford product is that it's blue-sensitive only. What about this product, is it still ortho or can it take some greens or even yellow? Somewhere said very dark red safelight needed, so it's not panchro, but anything more than blue-only will be appreciated.
- Some of the rewards are "chemical kits". So does it need special processing with these kits? Or can it work in any old paper or film dev?
- The biggest downside I can see from that page was the line "Additionally, if the demand is sufficient enough, we might continue production of this photo paper on a regular basis" (emphasis mine). Kickstarter (in my opinion) is meant to be a platform for getting businesses running, not just to pre-order goods or one-off runs. And I don't want to back a project, get my 25 sheets, absolutely love it, go to order more and find out that that's all I'm ever getting. So I'd be happier with a bit more optimism in turning this into a viable business (like many others have done). Of course you can't answer that question yet without knowing demand, which is what the kickstarter is partly intended to do, but I'd prefer something more along the lines of it being a definite plan than a potential one-off.

Other than that, count me in.

These are two questions (spectral sensitivity and continued availability) that I would also need answered, and the latter I'd need to know before backing a project for just the same reason. I don't want just enough sheets and chems to get hooked on something I then can't get more of.

Roger Cole · Jul 22, 2015

There's another thread on this. Can we get a mod to merge them?

Here's the other, longer, one:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 22, 2015

ciniframe said:
The title says it all. A paper with a speed equivalent to ISO 64
Dead Link Removed

It has already been mentioned before and today there is this announcement:

http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1953767355

And here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

EDIT: Roger was quicker than me.

wilper · Jul 22, 2015

Has anyone figured out if the 4x5 papers are 4x5 inches, or the size of 4x5 film (i.e. slightly smaller than 4x5 inches so they fit into 4x5 film holders).

ciniframe · Jul 22, 2015

wilper said:
Has anyone figured out if the 4x5 papers are 4x5 inches, or the size of 4x5 film (i.e. slightly smaller than 4x5 inches so they fit into 4x5 film holders).

I mentioned that to them and they said 'thanks, that is the type of information we need', or something to that effect. Since this paper is intended for in camera use I would sure hope it's cut to the right size for regular double dark slide film holders.

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

It's not a direct positive paper.

It is a paper designed for reversal processing, and I can only assume that the process chemicals will include a chemical fogging step which precludes the need for a fogging exposure.

mooseontheloose · Jul 22, 2015

GalaxyPhoto said:
Dear friends!
We are super excited to share this news with you. Our Kickstarter campaign is coming out today! We have waited for this and have worked hard to make it happen! We will be glad to see you among our backers and supporters. Please spread the word and together we will bring Galaxy Super Speed Paper to live.
Here is a link to our Kickstarter project where you can find all information about our plans, rewards, and timeline. (Dead Link Removed )
Follow us for updates.

Dr Croubie said:
First thoughts on the kickstarter page:
- RC and Higher ISO rate high with me, 2 of the 3 drawbacks of the Ilford product solved right there.
- The last drawback of the Ilford product is that it's blue-sensitive only. What about this product, is it still ortho or can it take some greens or even yellow? Somewhere said very dark red safelight needed, so it's not panchro, but anything more than blue-only will be appreciated.
- Some of the rewards are "chemical kits". So does it need special processing with these kits? Or can it work in any old paper or film dev?
- The biggest downside I can see from that page was the line "Additionally, if the demand is sufficient enough, we might continue production of this photo paper on a regular basis" (emphasis mine). Kickstarter (in my opinion) is meant to be a platform for getting businesses running, not just to pre-order goods or one-off runs. And I don't want to back a project, get my 25 sheets, absolutely love it, go to order more and find out that that's all I'm ever getting. So I'd be happier with a bit more optimism in turning this into a viable business (like many others have done). Of course you can't answer that question yet without knowing demand, which is what the kickstarter is partly intended to do, but I'd prefer something more along the lines of it being a definite plan than a potential one-off.

Other than that, count me in.

+1

Concerning the last two points: is this really a direct positive paper, or do we need the chemical kit to reverse process it? If so, will that chemical kit only be available in the US? What about the rest of the world? I would like to support this project, but not if I can't get the chemicals to use it properly. Similarly, if this is meant as a one-off project, what's the point? I think most people would be interested in it only if they knew there were some long-term benefits to supporting it.

darkosaric · Jul 22, 2015

pdeeh said:
It's not a direct positive paper.
It is a paper designed for reversal processing

So actually we already have Ilford RC Express that has high iso value that was mentioned in this kickstarter.

Did anybody tried to do reversal processing of Ilford Express?

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

Didn't even know that stuff existed. Have you got a link to a data sheet for that product Darko?
I can't find one on the Harman/Ilford site, just a product list. Seems to be aimed at photofinishers

darkosaric · Jul 22, 2015

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061302011362114.pdf

filters Setting 00 0 1 2 3 4 5
ISO range 180 160 120 100 80 60 50

adelorenzo · Jul 22, 2015

pdeeh said:
It's not a direct positive paper.

It is a paper designed for reversal processing, and I can only assume that the process chemicals will include a chemical fogging step which precludes the need for a fogging exposure.

Wait, what? I backed this because it's a direct positive, if it needs special chemicals or a process I'm out. When you read closely they aren't exactly being clear about it.

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

No, definitely not a direct pos.

They acknowledge this explicitly in a thread at lfpf, here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.i...y-paper-direct-positive&p=1254913#post1254913

Personally, I think their ks page reads as muddled and ill-informed.

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

darkosaric said:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061302011362114.pdf

filters Setting 00 0 1 2 3 4 5
ISO range 180 160 120 100 80 60 50

Thanks darko.
Lets all remember that paper ISO is not the same as film ISO

ciniframe · Jul 22, 2015

pdeeh said:
Thanks darko.
Lets all remember that paper ISO is not the same as film ISO

They have said that the paper has a sensitivity to light equivalent to a film speed of ISO 64
They have a sample shot of a sunlit beach exposed at f22 @ 1/30sec. about right for that ISO.

As for reversal processing, that does not bother me as I'm going to use it in regular chemicals to process it as a negative. This so I can make several prints if necessary. I'm only after it for the high speed, 1.5 to 2.5 stops faster than I can get with regular grade 2 RC paper that I preflash. It can be handled, loaded and processed under dim safe light, the other reason I like paper negatives for large format. If they can keep the price to less than $1 per sheet in 4X5 size for regular production after the Kickstarter campaign is finished then I would be interested in buying this product if it appears as a regularly stocked item.

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

No, I'm not suggesting that they are misleading anyone about the speed, but it is as well to remind ourselves that paper and film speed are not measured the same.

What I'd be very interested to know is how they punch the speed up so high for a paper, and what the likely compromises are by doing so.

Let's hope PE takes an interest in this and offers some thoughts

ciniframe · Jul 22, 2015

There is another thing to consider ladies and gentlemen;
The direct positive image is laterally reversed when viewed, backwards that is. One could introduce a mirror at 45 degrees to the light path and that would flip the image so that it will be correct, left to right.
The instant film process of old Polaroid cameras exposed the peel apart film through the back and thus avoided this. But with the SX system came out the image was exposed on the front of the film and there was always a first surface mirror in the light path. This prevented a portrait of uncle Fred from having his part on the wrong side of his head.

new photo paper in the mix, galaxy direct positive

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