New Paterson System 4 reels and air bubbles

Here are some ideas I have.

1. The surface finish (texture) on the reels is different enough for the bubbles to cling to its surface. I suspect a smooth surface is better than a textured one, so don't use an abrasive.

2. Have you tried developing one roll in a two-roll tank with an empty reel above the one loaded with film? It really is best for agitation as the air space above the loaded reel permits the development by-products to disperse equally thoughtout the solution. Ensure that the lower reel is fully covered with liquid plus some.

3. You might try boiling your water before mixing the developer. A good 20 minutes is supposed to precipitate any dissolved solids, but it also removes air that is dissolved in the water. Let it cool before to the correct temperature before mixing the developer. You can try this without mixing the developer (i.e., just boiled water) to see if you get air bubbles.

4. Maybe adding some alcohol to the developer could reduce the surface tension of the developer enough to break the bubbles. Ethanol is probably best, but isopropyl alcohol will probably be fine. Make the alcohol about 5 to 10% of the solution (as a guess).

A follow up.

My old reels, and a friends reels, do not have this problem in the same water/liquids. So it is the reels which have a problem.

The air bubbles sticks to the reels in all liquids.

I tested adding Mirasol (wetting agent), and 6 drops pr 500ml, combined with 5-6 hard dunks of the tank on table, and 10 raps on the sides/bottom of the tank with a spatula, dislodges the bubbles 8 out of 10 times. The last two, some bubbles didn't disappear. This process is not right, and I think it is a manufacturing issues/defect. I've written the seller, I'll see what they say.

Also, I cleaned the reels like a million times now, using everything from vinegar with dish wash. water and baking powder (creates a good foam) to old C41 developer, BLIX and STAB (soaked in each for hours) to try to "season" the reels to the chemicals. Nothing has helped.

I'm staring to feel a little annoyed, Paterson used to be a reliable brand, but other seems to have had the same problem, without any reliable solution.

Rgds
Michael

I fail to see what the fuss is about. You had some edge marks which seem foam related and easily remedied next time by using a bit more solution. You haven't actually said or shown any marks that actually matter on a negative caused by air bubbles.

Svenedin said:

I fail to see what the fuss is about. You had some edge marks which seem foam related and easily remedied next time by using a bit more solution. You haven't actually said or shown any marks that actually matter on a negative caused by air bubbles.

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It is not foam, but air bubbles, which sticks to the reel, thereby marring the negative.


My older reels do not have this problem.

Foam has a larger and different pattern.

Rgds
Michael

I had the same marks appearing every now and then on my 120 film. I don't what caused it. It could be indeed related to a few of the reels i use as i have quite a few of them from different generation, but the problems disappeared when i started using just a bit more solution after a tip on some other forum.

Huub said:

he problems disappeared when i started using just a bit more solution after a tip on some other forum

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How much more do you use? 1,100 ml for a 1,000 ml tank?

Have you contacted Paterson? Most manufacturers care about the quality of their products and satisfaction of their customers. They need to know about this problem.

Had a similar problem with my Paterson reels. I went to a steel reel/tank for 120, as the film loads with greater spacing once on the reel and I no longer invert during development to reduce formation of bubbles. I use a swirl and back-and-forth agitation process for even development and no longer get bubble marks.

Rick

Indeed - about 550 ml in 2 reel tank and 1100 in my 5 reel tank.

i've read people using a couple of drops of photo-flo in the developer - if it's bubbles, not foam, this may help. it might be worth a try to see what happens! good luck.

If this is actually a new reel / old reel problem and you've spent all this time (unsuccessfully) trying to find the cause, I would throw away the new reels then find some used (old) reels on eBay.

I sent an email to Paterson and asked their advice, pointing to this thread. If they respond to me, I'll share the info here.

voceumana said:

I sent an email to Paterson and asked their advice, pointing to this thread. If they respond to me, I'll share the info here.

Click to expand...

I'll be looking forward to hear what they say.

I'm this short of ordering JOBO instead.

Rgds
Michael

Huub said:

Indeed - about 550 ml in 2 reel tank and 1100 in my 5 reel tank.

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I've tested my 1000ml tank, filled with 1100ml of fluids and wetting agent... still bubbles/marks on the negative.

Not a very positive experience with these reels, most likely I'll return them as defect – if MacoDirect accepts that.

Rgds
Michael

Nothing back from Paterson yet. Suggest you try returning them and trying Jobo. It would be a shame if Paterson has screwed up a proven design.

As Harman/Ilford are involved with the distribution of Paterson products, you might consider "Starting a Conversation" with Harman Tech Service using the pm system here on APUG.