New MGIV Floats in Washer

ChuckP · Jun 28, 2013

I just opened a new 100 sheet box of Ilford MGIV and noticed that it floated when put into the vertical archival washer. Strange because the year old package I just finished did not float. I also saw that both new Oriental VCII and Bergger VC NB did float. My Ilford MGWT did not float. Just wondering if there has been a recent change to the MGIV paper base? It does seem thick and stiff compared to some older papers like Agfa MCC.

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2013

Is it textured , are you sure its not art 300, it is the only paper I know that floats immediately in an archival vertical washer.

Barry S · Jun 28, 2013

I just tried a box of 11x14 MGWT semi-matte and noticed it floated in my Gravity Works washer. The base seems a little heavier than some of my older Ilford paper, but it could be my imagination. The MG Art 300 is very buoyant.

dpurdy · Jun 28, 2013

All my papers float after washing awhile. I have to put the slotted lid on and even weight it down with the squeegee.

tkamiya · Jun 28, 2013

I suggest increasing the exposure time so the tone is thick and heavy.

They always float for me and I've been using it for several years. I have a bar that goes across slots of the washer to keep them submerged.

pentaxuser · Jun 28, 2013

ChuckP, is this an immediate float effect or only after it has been in the washing slot for some time as others are reporting?

I wonder if this is both time and type of liquid dependent? I haven't bought any MGIV for some time so I will have old stock but I use a Nova vertical slot processor and on the few occasions that my Nova clip has slipped off the paper in the developer slot it has sunk immediately

Thicker and stiffer than the Agfa MCC it may be but I'd have thought that the density of the paper wouldn't change sufficiently to make a difference. To my non scientific brain doesn't stiffer and thicker indicate that the paper is more dense rather than less so less inclined to float?

I wonder if Simon Galley would care to comment on any change to MGIV paper that might account for this change from sinking to floating?

pentaxuser

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2013

I am using MG1V right now, recent purchased paper , it is normal , as expected.
the Art 300 is unusual in the way it bounces out of the washer.
All papers sink when first placed in the wash but after time in the wash float to the top of the washer, almost like they are telling you they are done.

Bruce Osgood · Jun 28, 2013

In my slot washer all paper rises due to the circulation of the water up and out. Faster water flow moves them even quicker.

MaximusM3 · Jun 28, 2013

Well, I'm glad I'm not dreaming...bought a box of 250 two weeks ago and I was like WOW...the paper seems to have quite more weight. It's thicker and I don't think I'm imagine it. Floats a bit more but the weight compared to my older prints is absolutely, positively different. Maybe Simon can clarify.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 28, 2013

I seem to remember a thread from quite a while ago where Simon mentioned an upcoming modification to Ilford papers that was supposed to help them lie flatter after drying without the need for hot pressing. Might this have something to do with it??

Just speculating...

Ken

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2013

I know the Art 300 is thicker, I am going through a box of 16x20 matt paper purchased fresh and it is the same weight, so this is strange .

MaximusM3 · Jun 28, 2013

Ken Nadvornick said:
I seem to remember a thread from quite a while ago where Simon mentioned an upcoming modification to Ilford papers that was supposed to help them lie flatter after drying without the need for hot pressing. Might this have something to do with it??

Just speculating...

Ken

Didn't see that, Ken, but thanks for pointing out. I have no doubt that the paper in this box of 250 (gloss) I bought on April 26th from B&H, is thicker and it indeed dries flatter. Still needs some pressing but sure is better.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 28, 2013

Found it, from October 2006:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

But the time frame stated for switching to the new manufacturing process was "early in 2007," so maybe this isn't related.

Ken

MartinP · Jun 28, 2013

Did that Ilford research idea eventually help with the ART300 paper, not that it's completely flat though? I'm going to look around the Ilford site and elsewhere as I'm intrigued by this thread and buy a load of paper only about twice a year . . .

ChuckP · Jun 28, 2013

Well it looks like everyone has different experiences with the same papers. The new MGIV floated right up when put in the washer. Same as new Oriental VCII, Bergger VC NB and Emaks. They seem to have similar paper bases. The previous MGIV was 2011 vintage and did not float at all. I move my prints vertically a few times during washing and these always settled to the bottom. Same for my 2011 MGWT. Older MCC, Seagull graded and Forte Polywarmtone are on a different more flexible base and don't float for me. Can't remember what Adox 110 did. Yes I just use the top piece to weigh it down with so no big deal. Actually it's easier to move the prints during the wash with the floaters. Take off the top and they just bob up and down on their own. The others you have to reach it to grab, move them up and down a couple times and then they sink.

Alex Muir · Jun 28, 2013

The Art 300 is on a different base from other Ilford papers. It is heavier and made by Hahnemulle who produce a range of specialist inkjet papers. I tried it recently and it is quite impressive. I washed it in a tray, so didn't notice its buoyant tendencies. Alex.

jvo · Jun 28, 2013

tkamiya said:
I suggest increasing the exposure time so the tone is thick and heavy.

They always float for me and I've been using it for several years. I have a bar that goes across slots of the washer to keep them submerged.

yeh, more exposure does make a difference!!!! much heavier

fotch · Jun 28, 2013

What ever floats your boat

jvo · Jun 28, 2013

fotch said:
What ever floats your boat

it's obvious the fotch has channeled the answer!:

Kirk Keyes · Jun 29, 2013

JimO said:
yeh, more exposure does make a difference!!!! much heavier

Come on, guys - don't give out bad info!

The true reason is too much heavy waterin the washer! Or perhaps all that heavy hypo is sinking to the bottom of the washer and displacing the paper...

tkamiya · Jun 29, 2013

No, no, no!

You either have to have more developed paper or use more fix to repair the broken paper....

Simon R Galley · Jul 1, 2013

Dear All,

ART 300 is bouyant and that is due to the base.

The MGIV RC base has not changed, the emulsion has not changed, nothing has changed.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon R Galley · Jul 1, 2013

Dear All,

And just to confirm, nothing has changed with MULTIGRADE FB of all types either.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

New MGIV Floats in Washer

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