New member looking for 645 recommendation

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

Hi!

I've been researching various 645 format cameras and have narrowed my choices down to the Mamiya 645 1000s or the Pentax 645N.

I've discounted the Mamiya 645 Pro due to the mirror stop issue and am leaning towards the 1000s. The one I'm looking at has had the light seals replaced which seems to be the most common issue with these old cameras.

I'm interested in the Pentax 645N although my concerns with it are it's electronic nature and ergonomics.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Neil Grant · May 23, 2021

...Mamiya's early 'all metal' 645 cameras, were more reliable than the later 'pro' versions - which were increasingly plasticy. The light seals on the fixed back cameras are a simple job to replace. The camera's handling is improved with a side grip, but they remain slightly fiddly - the lens release and shutter lock are tiny. The plus side is the early Mamiya's work well enough and keep on going. The accessory range is also really extensive.

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

Neil Grant said:
...Mamiya's early 'all metal' 645 cameras, were more reliable than the later 'pro' versions - which were increasingly plasticy. The light seals on the fixed back cameras are a simple job to replace. The camera's handling is improved with a side grip, but they remain slightly fiddly - the lens release and shutter lock are tiny. The plus side is the early Mamiya's work well enough and keep on going. The accessory range is also really extensive.

Thanks Neil, I'm definitely leaning towards the 1000s my only worry is getting a lens that is free of haze, alot of the listing say "mint" but I've learnt thats not always the case. I thought that getting a newer system like the Pentax might be a better way to go but I'm not sure about their reliability.

ruilourosa · May 23, 2021

Hasselblad...

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

ruilourosa said:
Hasselblad...

Already have a 503CXi body

pentaxuser · May 23, 2021

Given some interest in the P645N you might want to look at Ken Rockwell's review. As an owner of this camera I found it useful and it pretty well accords with my experience of it. I find its ergonomics to be fine but like all except the rangefinders or older folders in the MF range, it is quite a heavy camera but with a wide strap can be carried round the neck for periods long enough to ensure that a session can be completed without undue strain or at least that is what I have found

pentaxuser

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Given some interest in the P645N you might want to look at Ken Rockwell's review. As an owner of this camera I found it useful and it pretty well accords with my experience of it. I find its ergonomics to be fine but like all except the rangefinders or older folders in the MF range, it is quite a heavy camera but with a wide strap can be carried round the neck for periods long enough to ensure that a session can be completed without undue strain or at least that is what I have found

pentaxuser

Are they generally reliable, anything I should look out for? Repair options are limited here in Australia,

pentaxuser · May 23, 2021

Surfheart said:
Are they generally reliable, anything I should look out for? Repair options are limited here in Australia,

I can only say tha I have never had any problems with my P645N which I bought from a person who was a member of my U.K. forum I had the advantage of being able to collect it from him and had its operation shown to me

The problem with getting info on reliability is that you get each person's rating on his or her camera and unless you have 100s of ratings it is near impossible to ascertain reliability.

Yes it does have electronics in it and I suspect that repairers who can deal with anything other than very simple repairs are a diminishing group and I have no idea about Australian repairers

Frankly film cameras are obsolete in the sense of no longer being made. They are simply history to their former makers so any purchase does not carry the kind of safeguards that current digital models do. So yes there are risks but that applies across the board in terms of parts and service for any camera that has "circuitry" especially

You might want to join PentaxForums where there are still some, albeit a diminishing number, of current film based P645N users but at least on that forum some will be ex-P645N users who have moved to digital. So there will be more users there than here

pentaxuser

bmw760 · May 23, 2021

do you need AF ? or manual focus only?

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

bmw760 said:
do you need AF ? or manual focus only?

I would prefer MF.

Paul Howell · May 23, 2021

Surfheart said:
Already have a 503CXi body

How about a 645 back for your Hassy?

wiltw · May 23, 2021

When I was selecting a brand for purchase of new 645 system several decades ago, I had the benefit of having a store which carried Pentax and Mamiya and Bronica in stock. And the store, being professionally oriented in its trade, allowed plenty of time with minimal high pressure rush sales.
What struck me about a (to me) significant negative about the Pentax 645 was that the integrated grip was attached at the back of the body...putting ALL weight forward of the grip and imposing what could be significant torque on the hand gripping the camera and lens whenever the left hand was not supporting a lot of the forward weight. In comparison, the Mamiya and Bronica were much better inherently balanced in the gripping hand (when a grip accessory was used) than the Pentax.

In terms of general ergonomics, the Pentax seemed a more gentle transition from the electronic control 135 SLRs (like Canon EOS, Minolta Maxxum) vs. earlier tranditional mechanical SLRs.

In my own choice, I ended up selecting Bronica ETRS over the M645, primarily because for wedding work the leaf shutter lenses better enabled electronic flash use without the X-sync limitations of a focal plane shutter. While leaf shutter lenses were offered for both Mamiya and Pentax, there was some loss of automation features while they were in use.

MattKing · May 23, 2021

Welcome.
I'm a long time satisfied owner of the Mamiya 645 Pro. Previous to that, I owned a 645 Super, which although heavily used before I got it, worked well. There are many 645 Pro and 645 Pro-Tl bodies out there, because they were very successful cameras, popular with wedding photographers. The mirror stops were regular maintenance items for high use cameras, when Mamiya was still making and servicing the cameras. A small percentage of those bodies have had heavy use but haven't had that service, and as a result have worn out mirror stops.
Of course, it is hard to tell over the internet how much heavy use a camera has had, or whether it has been serviced, but there are lots of them out there that have perfectly fine mirror stops.
The 645 Pro and Pro-Tl are robust, metal framed cameras with some robust non-metallic exterior cladding. The 645 Super is similar, but had somewhat lest robust gearing in the winding mechanism, which did not withstand well, heavy use with a motor winder. The body I had was fine.
The older Mamiya M645 versions like the 1000s and earlier are now quite old - some of them approaching 50 years old. They have their challenges as well - good luck finding a prism finder that isn't showing signs of separation.
All of the lenses in the Mamiya 645 line fit all of the cameras, so you can put a 2000 lens on a 1980 body.
From my 645 Pro:

Spring in the Forest

MattKing
Apr 20, 2021

As we go fully into spring, even in the heart of the forest we can see signs of bursting new life

Huss · May 23, 2021

I had a Mamiya 645 Pro TL system and had zero reliability issues with it. I however do NOT recommend getting the 80 1.9 lens, as my perfect one hazed up really quickly (none of my other lenses did) and it is not repairable as it is between the cemented elements). The regular 80mm is just fine.

I however traded it in for a Hasselblad H1 system as I found focusing the Mamiya strangely problematic. No issues focusing other manual focus cameras, but the Mam was just much more fiddly for me.
The H1 (which is completely different than your 503!) is made by Fuji I think, has AF which is decent, but the manual focus is really easy and snappy compared to the Mam.
Also - Hasselblad still services the H1! Which is a huge bonus.

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

Paul Howell said:
How about a 645 back for your Hassy?

had no idea these were even available, I would have to mask the viewfinder though I think

wiltw said:
What struck me about a (to me) significant negative about the Pentax 645 was that the integrated grip was attached at the back of the body...putting ALL weight forward of the grip and imposing what could be significant torque on the hand gripping the camera and lens whenever the left hand was not supporting a lot of the forward weight

I wondered about that, I'm not keen on the cameras with grips.

MattKing said:
Of course, it is hard to tell over the internet how much heavy use a camera has had, or whether it has been serviced, but there are lots of them out there that have perfectly fine mirror stops.

That's my worry, I guess I could always get the 3D printed part though.

Huss said:
I however do NOT recommend getting the 80 1.9 lens, as my perfect one hazed up really quickly (none of my other lenses did) and it is not repairable as it is between the cemented elements). The regular 80mm is just fine.

Thank you that is good to know, the 2.8 versions don't haze?

wiltw · May 23, 2021

Surfheart said:
had no idea these were even available, I would have to mask the viewfinder though I think
I wondered about that, I'm not keen on the cameras with grips.

Only the Pentax 645 has a mandatory (integrated) grip for its built-in winder.
The M645 and Bronica ETRS both had optional grips, and the Bronica had a choice beteen manual wind or powered winder.
The benefit of the grip is that it make for a use which is very similar to 135 format SLR, tuning camere 90 degress for portrait orientation shooting while looking thru a prism finder.

Auer · May 23, 2021

wiltw said:
When I was selecting a brand for purchase of new 645 system several decades ago, I had the benefit of having a store which carried Pentax and Mamiya and Bronica in stock. And the store, being professionally oriented in its trade, allowed plenty of time with minimal high pressure rush sales.
What struck me about a (to me) significant negative about the Pentax 645 was that the integrated grip was attached at the back of the body...putting ALL weight forward of the grip and imposing what could be significant torque on the hand gripping the camera and lens whenever the left hand was not supporting a lot of the forward weight. In comparison, the Mamiya and Bronica were much better inherently balanced in the gripping hand (when a grip accessory was used) than the Pentax.

In terms of general ergonomics, the Pentax seemed a more gentle transition from the electronic control 135 SLRs (like Canon EOS, Minolta Maxxum) vs. earlier tranditional mechanical SLRs.

In my own choice, I ended up selecting Bronica ETRS over the M645, primarily because for wedding work the leaf shutter lenses better enabled electronic flash use without the X-sync limitations of a focal plane shutter. While leaf shutter lenses were offered for both Mamiya and Pentax, there was some loss of automation features while they were in use.

I dont find the forward weight balance of the 645N a problem at all, but then I don't shoot it one handed all that often.
Even so I can hold it steady enough one handed for daytime shots with the FA 45-85.

I normally let my left hand hold the majority of it's weight, and frankly it's not that heavy of a camera at all.
Great ergonomics. Having the AF option is a bonus too.

Auer · May 23, 2021

645N

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmV2MXqm

Surfheart · May 23, 2021

Auer said:
645N

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmV2MXqm

Nice!

Some benefits of the 645N would be that the cameras are much newer and I probably won't need to worry about light seals, lens haze or broken mirror stops.

Auer · May 23, 2021

Surfheart said:
Nice!

Some benefits of the 645N would be that the cameras are much newer and I probably won't need to worry about light seals, lens haze or broken mirror stops.

As mentioned earlier, worth a visit to Pentaxforums as well to ask around https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/

Arthurwg · May 23, 2021

You don't need to mask the viewfinder using a Hasselblad A16 (645) back . An Acute-Matte screen with a split image center and a grid will give you the frame lines for 645, both vertical and horizontal.

Luis-F-S · May 23, 2021

Surfheart said:
Already have a 503CXi body

So get an A16, 645 back for it! L

Luis-F-S · May 23, 2021

Arthurwg said:
You don't need to mask the viewfinder using a Hasselblad A16 (645) back . An Acute-Matte screen with a split image center and a grid will give you the frame lines for 645, both vertical and horizontal.

Or you can etch the frame lines with a straight edge on any screen.

Rick A · May 23, 2021

You do realize, that a 6x6 is a 845 that you never have to roll onto its side to change orientation. Compose accordingly.

jvo · May 23, 2021

had the pentax 645n, mamiya 645 pro, 1000..., all bought used, and all were fine cameras with NO problems at all. i have an emotional attachment to the pentax, but if i had it to do over, i'd happily go with the mamiya 645 pro. great camera, great glass.

New member looking for 645 recommendation

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