New look to Kodak Ultramax

AnselMortensen · May 15, 2023

Moose22 said:
Don't get snarky with me. Go bitch to the people who designed this. I was just positing at their logic.

Snark was not directed at you...it was directed at Kodak's graphic design dept. design logic...
My apologies.

Agulliver · May 16, 2023

I too fully understand 1 film, 36 exposures, 400 speed. BTW a lot of the younger folk shooting film don't refer to ISO or ASA they say "400 speed" and so on. Not referring to ISO might just be a nod to how an increasing number of people aren't using ISO in conversation. A far cry from the days when we had to remember ASA and DIN, and ISO was a combination of the two.

The "new" Kodak logo still doesn't quite sit comfortably with me but I'm not overly fussed by it. The packaging is clean and visually appealing. It's going to stand out on shelves/racks too. Though I have to say my local stockist just has the film boxes, which I assume will remain a retail option? Or maybe she'll have to make a Kodak display. That would be fun.

cmacd123 · May 16, 2023

Agulliver said:
The "new" Kodak logo still doesn't quite sit comfortably with me but I'm not overly fussed by it. The packaging is clean and visually appealing. It's going to stand out on shelves/racks too. Though I have to say my local stockist just has the film boxes, which I assume will remain a retail option? Or maybe she'll have to make a Kodak display. That would be fun.

there are several SKU items for 35mm Kodak "consumer" films. each can be ordered as a single Box, or a single roll Hang tag, or in a three rolls package which generality also has a hand tag. The "pro" films can come as a single roll, or in a five pack. Film sold at "Mass market" retailers generaly is ordered with a hang tag, while specialty shops often perfer ordering the single box package.

pentaxuser · May 16, 2023

Agulliver said:
A far cry from the days when we had to remember ASA and DIN, and ISO was a combination of the two.

And Scheiner as well. I thought this was a black eye until I studied film speed ratings

pentaxuser

Agulliver · May 17, 2023

cmacd123 said:
there are several SKU items for 35mm Kodak "consumer" films. each can be ordered as a single Box, or a single roll Hang tag, or in a three rolls package which generality also has a hand tag. The "pro" films can come as a single roll, or in a five pack. Film sold at "Mass market" retailers generaly is ordered with a hang tag, while specialty shops often perfer ordering the single box package.

My favourite camera shop still has something of a "wall of film" and has the single box packages. But I can see the hanging version being better for modern mass market retailers. I'd love to see film back in Tesco or similar. Last mass market place I saw film was Wal-Mart on my visit stateside in October last year....of course that was Fuji.

MattKing · May 17, 2023

The SJUs that relate to wall mount packaging are more likely to be carried by the distributors who specialize in stocking places like big box stores, drug stores and supermarkets and, back in the day, tourist attractions.

Prest_400 · May 17, 2023

Overly minimal but quite ok. Kodak was way fugly in some of the 2000 designs. An example that struck me at the time I joined APUG was the difference in K64: Kodachrome 64 (also 200) US boxes were beautiful and the European counterpart had an ugly 90s design.

Wish they used the "K" red logo (1971-2006) on one of the side box flaps. Perhaps it's limited to EK nowadays and I think they did well in bringing it back.

My favourite film box designs are Ilford; Particularly FP4-HP5 before the last iteration (without black stripe in the lower part, and squared edges if the "plus" black rectangle. The Deltas and XP2 "interlaced" designs are a a leftover nod from 1992 to the contemporary tech of the time. Side topic, I found that someone has modelled hundreds of film boxes as a project: https://www.flickr.com/photos/194953004@N05/

cmacd123 · May 17, 2023

Prest_400 said:
Wish they used the "K" red logo (1971-2006) on one of the side box flaps. Perhaps it's limited to EK nowadays and I think they did well in bringing it back.

the Current "K" logo has the word KODAK arranced verticaly.

they show all the versions on this page:

Milestones

A detailed list of key dates in Kodak's storied history

www.kodak.com

I am still fond of the "turned up corner" version. they alluded to that a few months ago in an ad in American Cinematographer.

Prest_400 · May 18, 2023

cmacd123 said:
the Current "K" logo has the word KODAK arranced verticaly.

they show all the versions on this page:

Milestones

A detailed list of key dates in Kodak's storied history

www.kodak.com

I am still fond of the "turned up corner" version. they alluded to that a few months ago in an ad in American Cinematographer.

I almost wrote a reference to the vertical "Kodak" in the K logo, as it is used by EK motion picture but not for the still film as far as I have seen. With that in mind, I am a 120 shooter mostly and it's been a year since I last bought any Kodak film (Portra) so these small changes I am not aware of.
As a Millenial, the red "K" logo is the most classic. The 2003-2018 minimal "kodak" logo is specially ubiquitous in still film I see. Also, no sense in replacing it in a lot of the physical media and facilities.

With this discussion I just did some searches ("Kodak portra", "Kodak ektar", "Kodak ultramax" in google and bing) and found the following:

The alaris official site does not appear in the first page, rather, it is distributors/stores (I am in the Nordics now)
When I got into Alaris' site (US): https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers/film There is almost no imaging of the packaging or products, but photographs taken with it. That's quite interesting.

cmacd123 · May 18, 2023

Prest_400 said:
The alaris official site does not appear in the first page, rather, it is distributors/stores (I am in the Nordics now)
When I got into Alaris' site (US): https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers/film There is almost no imaging of the packaging or products, but photographs taken with it. That's quite interesting.

it is posible that the package used depends on the Market. I recall year ago when Fuji and Kodak were fighting hard for market share, one of the dealers brought in Grey market film intended for the japanese market. the boxes were FAR more colourful than the North American boxes. {the flap did say "proof of Purchase for Japan"}
Language may also result in different packages. Here in Canada, all consumer products are required to be labeled in both French and English - in equal visibilty. I generaly see 4 language versions of film, english - French - German and Spanish. Although other languages sometimes appear. I often see US market versions which are also in French, to avoid having to make Multiple versions for the same logical market. US market should be in English and Spanish, but only English is required. .
(that requirment alone may be responsible for the Minimal look on the package we are talking about. if you don't say it, you don't have to translate it.}

MattKing · May 18, 2023

As cmacd123 posted, packaging has traditionally varied with markets.
It is this new-fangled internet ordering thing that has led people to expect consistent packaging world-wide

Agulliver · May 19, 2023

Way back in the ancient mists of time, or the 1980s as some refer to it....the world was a lot less connected and the European Union single market in particular had not yet been invented. If one travelled around Europe, packaging for the same product was different for local markets. Advertising was different. I actually preferred it because you got some local flavour. I recall shopping in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium for Agfa 200 ASA colour print film that I was using in England all within a period of 1986/7 and finding that the film was identical but the packaging was different. Nowadays, of course, every package comes with 100 different languages printed so small you can't read any of them and a generic "look" that works the world over. The only time it's significantly different is for countries with different alphabets.

The internet has indeed meant that product packaging has become even more homogeneous the world over. This new packaging could be global, in other words. I hope I get to see it though as it looks like it would stand out.

Tel · May 19, 2023

Agulliver said:
I too fully understand 1 film, 36 exposures, 400 speed. BTW a lot of the younger folk shooting film don't refer to ISO or ASA they say "400 speed" and so on. Not referring to ISO might just be a nod to how an increasing number of people aren't using ISO in conversation. A far cry from the days when we had to remember ASA and DIN, and ISO was a combination of the two.

My first unfiltered thought on seeing the number at the top right was "one pound thirty six; that's a great price"

Brad Deputy · May 20, 2023

BH Photo just updated the product photos, and the simplistic one referenced here is only one of three product pictures.

Has anyone ordered and received this, and confirm the packaging?

EDIT: Just picked up a roll of Ultramax 400 at Glazer's in Seattle today. Same old packaging, 7/2025 expiration.
Uhm, the film's tongue feels awfully thin, at least compared to Portra 400s
Has Kodak switched the 400's base to Poly / ESTAR too I wonder? I'll give it the tear test when it gets developed.

ArthurDodger · Jun 12, 2023

Brad Deputy said:
BH Photo just updated the product photos, and the simplistic one referenced here is only one of three product pictures.

Has anyone ordered and received this, and confirm the packaging?

EDIT: Just picked up a roll of Ultramax 400 at Glazer's in Seattle today. Same old packaging, 7/2025 expiration.
Uhm, the film's tongue feels awfully thin, at least compared to Portra 400s
Has Kodak switched the 400's base to Poly / ESTAR too I wonder? I'll give it the tear test when it gets developed.

I am guessing Yes, the specs are being updated and are not yet on the KodakAlaris Website. Plus, Kodak makes ESTAR and buys Acetate so it has to be more profitable for them to switch. ColorPlus200 and Portra800 135 Plus ALL Single Use Cameras are on ESTAR Now... All sheet and 120 film has been on ESTAR for some time now. It only makes sense that there are more to follow. Interested to hear the results of your "tear" test.

MattKing · Jun 12, 2023

ArthurDodger said:
All sheet and 120 film has been on ESTAR for some time now.

I believe the new Gold 200 in 120 may be on Estar.
All other Kodak 120 films that I am aware of - Tri-X, T-Max 100 and 400, Portra 160 and 400 and Ektachrome 100 - remain on acetate.
It is difficult and expensive to switch over - probably uneconomic for the relatively low volume 120 films.

Quiver2 · Jun 12, 2023

Recently developed a roll of Ultramax 400 for a friend. It is definitely the Estar base now. It has a distinctive sound when you wiggle it in the air.

Brad Deputy · Jun 12, 2023

MattKing said:
I believe the new Gold 200 in 120 may be on Estar.
All other Kodak 120 films that I am aware of - Tri-X, T-Max 100 and 400, Portra 160 and 400 and Ektachrome 100 - remain on acetate.
It is difficult and expensive to switch over - probably uneconomic for the relatively low volume 120 films.

I went ahead and snipped a piece of the tongue, and tried to tear it with my fingers -- Nope! Not even close. It just bends and stretches the harder I try.

We have (35mm UltraMax in) polyester!

I also compared it to a roll of Colorplus 200 I had, and they were identical (except emulsion color).

Quiver2, didn't think of the sound it makes -- that's a good idea

{Moderator's note - added words to make the film reference clear - as it referenced a comment about other films in different format}

cmacd123 · Jun 12, 2023

120 does not expose any of the film to the light so ESTAR is less of a problem in 120. Several types have been made in Poly over time. Light Pipe concerns are more of an issue with Poly 135 film.

ArthurDodger · Jun 13, 2023

Multiple data points on 135 GC Ultramax 400 being on Estar now. 100%. I expect Gold 200 to switch if it hasn't already. As noted above ColorPlus 200 135 is on Estar as is 135 Portra 800. Maybe even TMAX 135 as well. Makes total sense for Kodak. No real impact on photographers unless you go back and look at your "orange" negatives in 20 years.
The 400 has new packaging. 200 looks the same. Anyhow the "Tear Test" doesn't lie. I also expect the "Photographer" link to reappear any day now on the KodakAlaris.com website with the new data sheets. Perhaps more have switched. We will see!

mshchem · Jun 13, 2023

I will be surprised if Kodak will try to convert it's professional roll films to Estar. No reason to mess with perfection. All cine camera films require acetate. Estar is perfect for sheet film, it is a terrific substrate, archival.
Will see.

Agulliver · Jun 13, 2023

mshchem said:
I will be surprised if Kodak will try to convert it's professional roll films to Estar. No reason to mess with perfection. All cine camera films require acetate. Estar is perfect for sheet film, it is a terrific substrate, archival.
Will see.

Several reasons.

1. Kodak does not make acetate itself
2. Kodak does manufacture Estar
3. Acetate supply is sporadic at present and for the foreseeable.
4. Acetate prices are highly volatile at present and for the foreseeable.

For Kodak, it might be a case of "You want your pro films, have them on Estar or not at all". Leaving what acetate it can scrounge for the motion picture films if no substitute is possible.

brbo · Jun 13, 2023

Besides, Portra 800 is considered professional film and was actually the first to get converted to Estar.

mshchem · Jun 13, 2023

Agulliver said:
Several reasons.

1. Kodak does not make acetate itself
2. Kodak does manufacture Estar
3. Acetate supply is sporadic at present and for the foreseeable.
4. Acetate prices are highly volatile at present and for the foreseeable.

For Kodak, it might be a case of "You want your pro films, have them on Estar or not at all". Leaving what acetate it can scrounge for the motion picture films if no substitute is possible.

Eastman Kodak buys Estar branded polyester virgin pellets from Eastman Chemical in Tennessee.
Eastman Kodak extrudes Estar in Rochester.
Polyester is in demand, Eastman Kodak is a very minor player for Eastman Chemical compared to packaging and fiber.
Considering that there's no where near enough volume for Eastman Kodak to extrude both materials, and projection films require Estar thus conversion to Estar for amateur films.
Cine camera film requires acetate, polyester can destroy a camera in a jam.
I suspect EK is simply trying to balance out production, and most importantly show whoever is extruding the acetate that EK has options.

Never forget cinema is Eastman Kodak's most important market, especially with renewed interest in film and EK doesn't have a single competitor in cine films.

MHOFWIW, I'm an idiot so what do I know. Having worked with plastic companies and with procurement departments leverage is sought by both parties. I suspect this is playing a role here.

Watch for Cine camera films, Double X, the Vision films. If these are converted to Estar, it could all go rather quickly.

Again I'm an idiot, I'm only guessing here.

MattKing · Jun 13, 2023

mshchem said:
Never forget cinema is Eastman Kodak's most important market, especially with renewed interest in film and EK doesn't have a single competitor in cine films.

That is far from clear - other than the fact that they don't have competitors.
And much of the cine film production may be the intermediate films - not camera films.
They also have growing volumes in their non-photographic Estar sales.

New look to Kodak Ultramax

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