New Kodak Motion Picture Stock

[Crysist]

I found out through this video that Kodak had referred to "a yet-to-be-released Kodak motion picture stock, which is similar to a beloved professional still photography film" in an Instagram post about a music video. The description is similar on the DP's post. On that note, he also shot Euphoria and Kodak started putting Ektachrome out as 35mm motion picture stock for them.

Any ideas on what it could be? I feel like the Vision line already lines up with their pro films, in terms of technology and speed, that being the different versions of Portra. Unless they're suggesting they're bringing back 800 speed motion picture film, but is that necessary?

The only ideas I have, that would warrant making a new stock, is if they are doing something more like Ektar or a new Ektachrome.

 

[xkaes]

Or maybe without a REMJET backing?

 

[Sandro.m]

Or maybe without a REMJET backing?

 

[Lachlan Young]

Any ideas on what it could be? I feel like the Vision line already lines up with their pro films, in terms of technology and speed, that being the different versions of Portra. Unless they're suggesting they're bringing back 800 speed motion picture film, but is that necessary?

Probably something faster than 250 and daylight balanced.

 

[MattKing]

Or maybe without a REMJET backing?

More likely something like Ektar with REMJET added/adjusted for ECN-2 processing.

 

[cmacd123]

REM Jet is almost needed for motion picture use. IMAX had to do technical handstands to get 5222 (which does not come with REM-JET) to work in IMAX cameras.

 

[cmacd123]

when Fuji still made Motion Picture films, they did make

Fuji Reala 500D 8592 / 8692​

 

[bfilm]

There might be no reason to assume that it is based upon a current professional photography film. They already have EKTACHROME in motion picture film, and the PORTRA photography films were derived from the VISION motion picture stocks. Maybe they have created something that they think looks like KODACHROME.

 

[AZD]

Adding my wish to the list: E400

A transparency film faster than 100 has been missing (for me anyway) for a long time.

 

[dokko]

great news.
here's the video shot with the film:

There might be no reason to assume that it is based upon a current professional photography film.

well, on the instagram post of the DoP he writes:
"They supported the music video with a yet-to-be-released and never-before-used motion picture stock, which is similar to a beloved professional still photography film."

and kodak on their instagram:
"...on a yet-to-be-released Kodak motion picture stock, which is similar to a beloved professional still photography film. "

 

[bfilm]

well, on the instagram post of the DoP he writes:
"They supported the music video with a yet-to-be-released and never-before-used motion picture stock, which is similar to a beloved professional still photography film."

and kodak on their instagram:
"...on a yet-to-be-released Kodak motion picture stock, which is similar to a beloved professional still photography film. "

Right, the distinction I was making is that it might not be a *current* professional photography film.

 

[cmacd123]

FWIW, the description for the video: (i wonder why photrio alwas insists on deleting new lines, I hope I put as the New Lines back in the right place!)

like always the colorist [Colorist: Kaitlyn Battistelli ] proably had more to d with the look than the actual film stock.

Official video for "Vintage" by Moses Sumney. Courtesy of Tuntum Records https://mosessumney.ffm.to/vintage
Directed by: Moses Sumney
Director of Photography: Marcell Rév
Butler/Dancer: Brandon Mathis
Executive Producers: Violaine Etienne, Sara Greco, Moses Sumney
Producer: Balint Seres
Head of Production: JP Colombo
Production Manager: Genesis Socorro
Coordinator: Quinn Biddle Production Company:
Serial Pictures Stylist: Marcus Correa
Choreographer: Tony Tzar
Grooming: Marcela Osegueda
Editor: Niles Howard
Assistant Editor: Jacob Bottorff
Color House: Ethos Studio
Colorist: Kaitlyn Battistelli
Color Producer: Nat Tereshchenko VFX: HIMIA
1st AD: Conrad Curtis 2nd AD: Jack Peterson
1st AC: Mike Lemnitzer
2nd AC: Fred Porras
Loader: Michelle Suh
Production Designer: John Richoux
Set Decorator: Leah Bychurch
SPFX: Benjamin Graham
Draper: Cassie Hunter
Set Dresser: Lance (Rico) Levulose, Rafael Chamagua, Mathew Burns Gaffer: Danny Durr BBE: Jeff Gordon SLT: Connor Trees, Katelyn Adkisson, Frank Juarez, Zachary Emick, Jackson Mach
Key Grip: Jeff Kunkel BBG: Scott Carden
Grip Driver: Dane Harvey Grip: Clayton Nepveux, Mike Carter
Stunt Choreographer: Vladimir Tevlovski
Head of Production: Gabrielle Page
Managing Director: Marlo Baird
Set Medic: Johnny Silva
Playback: Aaron Liao Key PA: Marco Apun
PA: Joey Horton
BTS/Stills: Sam Cannon
Camera: Arri
Flim Lab: Fotokem
Film Stock: Kodak
Lighting: Light Force
Grip: Grip Fix

"Vintage" was shot on a yet-to-be-released and never-before-used Kodak motion picture stock. Special thanks to the Kodak Motion Picture Team. A TUNTUM PRODUCTION.

may as well include the link to this version:

 

[braxus]

Could it be a re-release or copy of an old 70s-80s film, like 5247 (a 100T film)?

 

[Bruce Butterfield]

Not sure 5247 was ever “beloved” but it was cheap. Remember Seattle Film Works?

 

[E76]

Adding my wish to the list: E400

A transparency film faster than 100 has been missing (for me anyway) for a long time.

There used to be an E200 not that long ago. Kodak specifically recommended it for push processing.

 

[pentaxuser]

Well if the film will look that way based on the video, it certainly looks different to me It has that desaturated, almost pale colour look I was never a great fan of the "Monument Valley" Technicolor look but this one seems even quite desaturated for me.

Or is this just my impression based on the predominantly pale colour scheme of the sets?

Shouldn't there have been a naughty bit warning added for Photrio viewers for the last few seconds of the first dance sequence with the two gents at the bottom of the stairs"

pentaxuser

 

[Lachlan Young]

REM Jet is almost needed for motion picture use. IMAX had to do technical handstands to get 5222 (which does not come with REM-JET) to work in IMAX cameras.

No, it wasn't anything to do with Remjet, it was setting up a 65mm processing machine to handle D-96 - as the prior usage of B&W 65mm outside of VFX/ SFX (and that was decades ago now) was nil. There are issues with using 5222 in some 35mm movements (Arri 2-perf, possibly 3-perf) as the pressure plates in those weren't treated to be anti-reflective on the assumption that all usage of those specific movements would be ECN-2 neg only. Remjet isn't essential, but it solved several problems more efficiently (read: more cheaply) because the processing environment could be properly equipped to handle it.

when Fuji still made Motion Picture films, they did make

Fuji Reala 500D 8592 / 8692​

Used that in 16mm.

My reckoning is the new stock is probably 500 or 640D. Maybe even 800D. The way that Tungsten balanced stocks are derived is explained in Shanebrook (e.g. Portra 100T derived from Portra 160 by relatively straightforward means). There's a whole sequence of reasons why a fast daylight balanced ECN-2 stock has become increasingly necessary, not least of which is the decline of tungsten and rise of LED.

 

[koraks]

Or maybe without a REMJET backing?

It would be odd, but given some artefacts in the video, it's even possible:

Could just be the lens, though.
The scene with the gold foil in the background that was likely shot with a longer lens doesn't exhibit these artefacts.

So no, I don't think it's going to be remjet-less. It'd be kind of a risk for Kodak to do something weird like that. Why invite the risk of static discharge lightning artefacts, scratched film back and increased friction? Doesn't sound like something the industry would be very eagerly waiting for.

My reckoning is the new stock is probably 500 or 640D. Maybe even 800D.

I'd expect that, yeah. A logical line extension, which also makes sense with the lighting in some segments of that video. So a kind of Portra 400 or Portra 800 equivalent in ECN2.

There's a whole sequence of reasons why a fast daylight balanced ECN-2 stock has become increasingly necessary, not least of which is the decline of tungsten and rise of LED.

Exactly.

 

[xkaes]

So no, I don't think it's going to be remjet-less.

I don't think so either, but I can dream! I'm still hoping they'll bring back Ektar 25 and APX 25.

 

[KyleMika]

Hoping for Portra 800 400' rolls, would be great as a motion picture stock, and then I could actually afford Portra 800

 

[koraks]

I don't think so either, but I can dream!

Yeah!

Hoping for Portra 800 400' rolls, would be great as a motion picture stock, and then I could actually afford Portra 800

Yeah!!

 

[bfilm]

There's a whole sequence of reasons why a fast daylight balanced ECN-2 stock has become increasingly necessary, not least of which is the decline of tungsten and rise of LED.

This is not necessarily true. The 85B filter has been used on tungsten film stocks for color conversion for decades.

On another note, LED lights are one way movies are getting worse, as natural light, firelight (including candlelight), and tungsten light are the only light sources that look good.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The 85B filter has been used on tungsten film stocks for color conversion for decades

And, as you should therefore know very well, it incurs an exposure compensation of 2/3 stop, thus rendering 500T only 1/3 stop faster than 250D under daylight balance conditions. There are lots of circumstances where being able to use a faster daylight balanced stock would be very helpful, especially as searing actors with 128A carbon arcs is probably not really acceptable today.

I also think you'd have a very hard time telling apart where HMI, LED, Kino-flo fluorescent, even carbon arcs had been competently used as opposed to tungsten. Some of the usage of less than convincing onboard effects on LED owe more to producer penny/ time pinching than anything else.

 

[Prest_400]

It would be odd, but given some artefacts in the video, it's even possible:
View attachment 374078

View attachment 374079
Could just be the lens, though.
The scene with the gold foil in the background that was likely shot with a longer lens doesn't exhibit these artefacts.

So no, I don't think it's going to be remjet-less. It'd be kind of a risk for Kodak to do something weird like that. Why invite the risk of static discharge lightning artefacts, scratched film back and increased friction? Doesn't sound like something the industry would be very eagerly waiting for.



I'd expect that, yeah. A logical line extension, which also makes sense with the lighting in some segments of that video. So a kind of Portra 400 or Portra 800 equivalent in ECN2.



Exactly.

A revered Professional still film is basically Ektar or Portra, if current. One way I tell some film shots is through that slight halation, infact I have some photos of NYC where this type of Halation between backlit buildings and sky happened on Portra 400. Don't have a source at hand, but certain conditions can overcome the antihalation. Also, there is supposedly more layer-interlayer light scattering in film than digital.
Looks slightly grainy, which points towards higher speed rather than Ektar.

Interestingly, PE mentioned back when Ektar and the new Portras were released that Ektar has more commonalities with cine film than Portra. IIRC it was some components and tech.

I don't think so either, but I can dream! I'm still hoping they'll bring back Ektar 25 and APX 25.

Kodak Ektar! Technically the 100 more or less should have the graininess of the 25; However look wise no idea. I am young and old enough to just have done Kodachrome, but I was not enticed into the Portras NC/VC back then.
A pet peeve of Kodak marketing is that they always advertised "fine grain", which is a bit of a historical KPI nowadays. "FINEST" stands on the top side of 120 Ektar and Portra 400 packs.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Ektar has more commonalities with cine film than Portra. IIRC it was some components and tech.

Only in that it was the first still neg films to commercialise relevant aspects of Vision 3 - the Portra revisions all seem to have integrated it too (there seems to have been a Portra 800 revision round about the same time as Ektar appeared).

Technically the 100 more or less should have the graininess of the 25

99.999% of it is misplaced nostalgia from people who fancy themselves smarter at emulsion design than Kodak.

Having used Kodachrome towards the end of its career as well, for all the properties people want to post-facto imbue it with, current Kodak professional colour neg runs so many rings round it aesthetically - never mind technically. Well preserved Pre-K14 Kodachrome can be quite beautiful, but has really wayward (if warm) colour reproduction outside of (somewhat representational - the 'right kind of wrong' if you get my drift) skin tones - and most of the nostalgia/ imagined nostalgia probably relates to this material.