New ISO 800/30° CN film possible - if you want

JanaM · Jul 15, 2009

Hi,

despite the discontinuation of Fuji Pro 800, we have positive action and motion in the market.

Rollei-Film is able to offer the Agfa-Gevaert Aviphot Color N800 film to the market.
http://www.agfa.com/sp/en/binaries/AVICOLOR N800_tcm221-42590.pdf

At the moment they are asking the customers whether there is interest in that film. Look here:

http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9561&p=114210#p114210

If there is sufficient demand, they will convert this 800 color negative film in 135 and 120 and will offer it worldwide.

So, if you want an alternative in the ISO 800/30° range, then contact Maco / Rollei-Film and show your demand.
Stop crying about Fuji, now it is up to you.
Rollei-Film will do it if enough of us want it.
If there is demand, there will be supply.

Jana

bsdunek · Jul 15, 2009

I certainly would use it! I often use color film in low light conditions in 35mm.

Jeff Kubach · Jul 15, 2009

I would use also!

Jeff

Ektagraphic · Jul 15, 2009

I would try it. I don't shoot many rolls of neg at all.

Russ - SVP · Jul 15, 2009

I hope it's a sgood as the newer Kodak Portra 800, which is an excellent film.

Kiron Kid

Sal Santamaura · Jul 15, 2009

Note that it's on a polyester base. This has presented problems since, unlike acetate, sprocket holes won't tear and the film transport could be damaged.

RobertV · Jul 15, 2009

There is a very small market in iso CN800 films and it's obvious too small for Fuji to continue the supply.
I will support this action by taking (Rollei) iso 800 films on stock, same for the new Rollei Retro 80S in 127 roll film format and the other configurations. The new Retro 400S film too in all formats.

It's typical a niche market where only a smaller supplier can fill the gaps.

Best regards,

Robert

(Dutch Rollei-Maco distributor)

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Sal Santamaura said:
Note that it's on a polyester base. This has presented problems since, unlike acetate, sprocket holes won't tear and the film transport could be damaged.

Well spotted, none of the reputable manufactures sell 35mm films on polyester bases for camera because of the potential damage to the film transport system.

The Ilford special 72ex 35mm had been discontinued by the time some of the current senior management joined the company but they indicated on an APUG factory visit that never again had or would they use a Polyester base for 35mm. It doesn't break, and the sprocket holes don't rip, so the chances of camera damage are potentially very high.

Ian

B&Wpositive · Jul 15, 2009

I would try it--if it didn't damage my camera!
Is polyester really that bad? Isn't ESTAR (eg tech pan) similar?

bob100684 · Jul 15, 2009

will it be a clear base film? or conventional orange?

Henning Serger · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Well spotted, none of the reputable manufactures sell 35mm films on polyester bases for camera because of the potential damage to the film transport system.

The Ilford special 72ex 35mm had been discontinued by the time some of the current senior management joined the company but they indicated on an APUG factory visit that never again had or would they use a Polyester base for 35mm. It doesn't break, and the sprocket holes don't rip, so the chances of camera damage are potentially very high.

Ian

Hello Ian, hello Sal,

I have to disagree. In the past and nowadays several film manufacturers had sold and are selling 35mm on a polyester (PET, ESTAR) base, including Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, Fotokemika Nova (Efke).

For example, Kodak Technical Pan was coated on a polyester base (Kodak called it ESTAR). I have used this film without any problems in my 35mm cameras. And I have never heard, that a Kodak Technical Pan film has damaged the film transport system of a camera.
Maco has offered several films (before they have established the Rollei-Film brand) on a PET base. No problems.

All of the current Filmotec photo films are coated on a PET base. Some of the Rollei-Films, Adox and Bergger films are / has been made by Filmotec. No problems.

The current Agfa-Gevaert films, which are offered by Rollei-Film since 2004, are all coated on a PET base. Never heard of any problems concerning film transport.
I have tested some of these films as well, in different cameras. No problems at all with film transport.

Adox CMS 20 is coated on polyester as well. And the latest batches of Efke films (and therefore Adox as well) are now coated on polyester, too. Look at Mirkos statement in his german Fotoimpex forum.

Back to the topic: If Rollei-Film can offer a 800 speed CN films, I would use it, especially in 120.

Best regards,
Henning

LarryD · Jul 15, 2009

I would gige it a try and having use many other films with polyester base yet never damaging a camera I think it could fill a nitch.

FedericoMP · Jul 15, 2009

I would love to try (and use) this film (and the new 127) if only Rollei managed to export their films to Argentina. :S

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Henning Serger said:
Hello Ian, hello Sal,

I have to disagree. In the past and nowadays several film manufacturers had sold and are selling 35mm on a polyester (PET, ESTAR) base, including Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, Fotokemika Nova (Efke).

For example, Kodak Technical Pan was coated on a polyester base (Kodak called it ESTAR). I have used this film without any problems in my 35mm cameras. And I have never heard, that a Kodak Technical Pan film has damaged the film transport system of a camera.
Maco has offered several films (before they have established the Rollei-Film brand) on a PET base. No problems.

All of the current Filmotec photo films are coated on a PET base. Some of the Rollei-Films, Adox and Bergger films are / has been made by Filmotec. No problems.

The current Agfa-Gevaert films, which are offered by Rollei-Film since 2004, are all coated on a PET base. Never heard of any problems concerning film transport.
I have tested some of these films as well, in different cameras. No problems at all with film transport.

Adox CMS 20 is coated on polyester as well. And the latest batches of Efke films (and therefore Adox as well) are now coated on polyester, too. Look at Mirkos statement in his german Fotoimpex forum.

Back to the topic: If Rollei-Film can offer a 800 speed CN films, I would use it, especially in 120.

Best regards,
Henning

So if you were selling the film you'd be prepared to cover the repair costs for the damage to a camera if caused by the film base ?

It's heavy duty motor drives or over-zealous winding on passed 36 ex that does the damage, but it will happen.

Many of the films you refer to AREN'T designed for normal camera use, many are micro films where the camera is far more robust, others, some maybe cine film, others are re-confectioned films designed for aerial photography or military/industrial applications.

I'm not denigrating the emulsions bt questioning the film base.

Ian

Distagon · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
So if you were selling the film you'd be prepared to cover the repair costs for the damage to a camera if caused by the film base ?

It's heavy duty motor drives or over-zealous winding on passed 36 ex that does the damage, but it will happen.

Many of the films you refer to AREN'T designed for normal camera use, many are micro films where the camera is far more robust, others, some maybe cine film, others are re-confectioned films designed for aerial photography or military/industrial applications.

I'm not denigrating the emulsions bt questioning the film base.

Ian

Ian,

which films with polyester base have you used by yourself?
How much have you used?
How many of your film cameras were damaged by these films?
How many cameras of photographers you personally know were damaged?
Do you believe, Kodak had sold the polyester based film Technical Pan to users with 35mm photo cameras for more than 20 years, if this film could have damaged the cameras?
Do you think that Efke is now offering polyester based films without checking whether polyester is suitable for 35mm cameras?

I have worked with several polyester based films, for more than 20 years, from Kodak, Agfa, Maco, Adox (CMS 20, Ortho 25) and Efke.
I have used them in motorised cameras. Even in the Nikon F6 with 8 fps.

I've never had a problem.
I know many photographers using polyester based films. No one has ever had a problem with film transport. Not in manuel wind cameras, not in cameras with motors.

By the way, I think it is great that Maco / Rollei-Film is asking us.
I would use a color negative film with ISO 800/30°.

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Any answer I give is irrelevant. I may have used Polyester films with care, I've no idea.

BUT Kodak, Fuji, Ilford and as far as I know Foma & EFKE DON'T make films designed specifically for film camera use on Polyester film.

If you or anyone else will guarantee the base won't wreck a few cameras then tell us.

Ian

Sirius Glass · Jul 15, 2009

I would try it, but I do not read or write German so I could not put my opinion in.

I would like to see examples.

Steve

perkeleellinen · Jul 15, 2009

The pdf says the film is 'low contrast', would be good to see a sample.

RobertV · Jul 16, 2009

and as far as I know Foma

Foma 120 roll films on Fomapan 100, 200 and 400 are made on polyester base. One of the reasons that the 120 roll film equivalent curls more then the 35mm (Tri-acetate) versions.

Best regards,

Robert

Ian Grant · Jul 16, 2009

Yes I use it one problem is when hanging to dry you need extreme care or the film rolls up and a corner can scratch the wet emulsion. My comments were really about 35mm on Polyester base.

Ian

rphenning · Jul 16, 2009

yeah I would try it. R3 was kind of a bust though unless you bought Rollei's developers.

JanaM · Jul 16, 2009

Email answer from Rollei-Film:

The demand / interest for this new 800 speed film is good. Seems that we as customers have power and Rollei is listening.
It will be introduced in 35mm, 127 (!!), 120 and 4x5" sheet film (!!!).

Long live film!

Jana

rphenning · Jul 16, 2009

4x5 oh my that is rad. I think I might have to snap up a box or two as long as it isn't priced too crazy.

AgX · Jul 16, 2009

Ian Grant said:
BUT Kodak, Fuji, Ilford and as far as I know Foma & EFKE DON'T make films designed specifically for film camera use on Polyester film.

For what kind of cameras are those films designed for if not film cameras...?

nickrapak · Jul 16, 2009

A second 127 emulsion in one week? I guess it may be time to get a Baby Rollei!

New ISO 800/30° CN film possible - if you want

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