"new" Fujifilm Fujicolor 200?

[Jonno85uk]

https://www.fujifilm.com/us/en/consumer/film-quicksnap/film/fujicolor-200

Some people think it's rebranded Kodak Gold 200.

I think u/samdharmawan is correct, rather interestingly this appears to be rebranded Kodak Gold 200. Here's the latest datasheet for Gold 200. Comparing the characteristic curves for Gold 200 and the new Fuji 200, the blue curve has the exact same bump at -3 log exposure, as well as the slight tapering for all three layers at 0.0 LogE, whereas the old C200 stayed straight, as well as all three curves staying pretty much parallel thru the plot. In addition, rather a rather telling note is that the new datasheet uses the terminology 'Cyan/Magenta/Yellow Forming Layer" in the spectral sensitivity curves, exactly the same as Kodak, while usually Fujifilm prefers to use the terminology 'Red/blue/green sensitive layer', as can be seen on the old C200 datasheet. Once this new film starts making it to stores, it should be easy to check the barcodes/COO and see where the film is made.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogComm...from_fujifilm_fujicolor_200_rebranded/hrfenhj

What do you make of this?

 

[BMbikerider]

I cannot see Kodak selling film to Fuji to be resold as a rebranded Fuji Product. I believe that both companies are having problems with distribution of their films and the supply in UK of both brands anyway is very sporadic where the 'consumer' level in concerned I have a fair amount in my fridge which instead of buying a 'brick of 10' I have been picking up the odd pack of 3 whenever I can. The consumer level of 120 film is virtually unobtainable and the price of 120 has gone through the roof!

 

[Jonno85uk]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it was only recently noticed that fuji's underwater disposables had a Kodak 800 film in. Iirc, it was noticed first on an imacon user group on Facebook

 

[foc]

Personally, I can't see Kodak supplying film to its rival Fuji.
I sometimes think these are stories on the web that grow legs and suddenly become truthful facts. ( of course, I stand to be corrected)

Here is the Fuji data sheet
https://asset.fujifilm.com/master/a...fujifilm-200-speed-film_data-sheet-master.pdf

Here are the edge markings from that data sheet

 

[AgX]

Edge signing can be changed at production by just pressing buttons.

 

[Jonno85uk]

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...kodak-800-iso-film.186033/page-2#post-2482532

This wasn't the source i had in mind though.

 

[Lachlan Young]

What do you make of this?

All the data on pg.6 of the data sheet matches Kodak's rather than Fuji's house style - and possibly the first appearance in recent years of an MTF for Gold 200... Which would suggest that Kodak may be supplying bulk rolls for Fuji US to convert - Kodak aren't hitting the limits of B-38's coating capacity, however their conversion capacity is where the bottleneck is. It may be that with the stoppages etc that Fuji's coating plant has been through, there has been a major shortfall of the consumer 200 speed film that would be converted in the US plant.

 

[Jonno85uk]

I did a difference of a few curves between gold 200 and fujicolor 200. The graphs are in different order so had to align each 1 individually.

Spectral dye sensitivity curve:

Exposure v Density

Spectral Sensitivity Curves

 

[cmacd123]

Edge signing can be changed at production by just pressing buttons.

UP to a point. the marking these days is done with software, and yes, changing the text in each field is easy, changing the layout of the fields takes more work. we have seen recently done products sold by one firm which were converted by another.

 

[MattKing]

I doubt it is the same film as Gold 200, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a similar emulsion no longer sold under the Kodak name.
Eastman Kodak does contract coating.

 

[Jonno85uk]

I doubt it is the same film as Gold 200, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a similar emulsion no longer sold under the Kodak name.
Eastman Kodak does contract coating.

If you look at the differences between the Fujicolor and gold datasheet curves I did above, they are identical. It's a copy and paste. Not only are the curves the same, so is the wording.
Overlay the curves from the Fujicolor over the gold and you'll see. The former needs to be enlarged to match the scale.

I thought it'd be a c200 rebranding but after comparing the datasheets, it's gold 200.

 

[Jonno85uk]

Maybe I am not seeing something, but it's the same film - just rebranded. Compare two datasheets:

• Old C200 (October, 2020)
  
• New Fujicolor 200 (December, 2021)

Grain, MTF, curves - everything is identical, the new datasheet uses higher resolution graphs, that's all

I think you need to put them side by side.

Look at the density/exposure curve and notice one shoulders and the other doesn't. The spectral sensitivity curve of one is cmy, the other RGB. The mtf curve of one has plots for RGB the other has a single plot. The midscale density starts at 1.5 on one, the other starts at 1.25.

 

[AgX]

Maybe I am not seeing something, but it's the same film - just rebranded. Compare two datasheets:

• Old C200 (October, 2020)
  
• New Fujicolor 200 (December, 2021)

Grain, MTF, curves - everything is identical, the new datasheet uses higher resolution graphs, that's all

The respective graphs are all very different.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Maybe I am not seeing something, but it's the same film - just rebranded. Compare two datasheets:

• Old C200 (October, 2020)
  
• New Fujicolor 200 (December, 2021)

Grain, MTF, curves - everything is identical, the new datasheet uses higher resolution graphs, that's all

Take a look at the graphic design of Kodak's data sheets and at Fuji's house style - the ones in the recent Fuji one exactly match Kodak's presentational style (even down to the exposures used) etc. It's highly unlikely that Fuji US have suddenly adopted Kodak's analytical presentation system - but they have copy/pasted the graphs provided by whoever coated the film for them.

 

[Helge]

OMG merger between Fuji and Kodak!!!

 

[mshchem]

I WOULDN'T PUT ANY FAITH IN SPECTRAL SENSITIVE GRAPHS. PROBABLY JUST XEROXING WHAT'S IN THE FILE CABINET

 

[Helge]

I WOULDN'T PUT ANY FAITH IN SPECTRAL SENSITIVE GRAPHS. PROBABLY JUST XEROXING WHAT'S IN THE FILE CABINET

OK.
WHAT FILE CABINET?

 

[pentaxuser]

The OP and Lachlan seem to have presented some fairly convincing evidence that there is a link. Frankly how many of us here know enough about the "workings" of Fuji and Kodak to make this kind of thing inconceivable

If it makes business sense for both parties to do such things then why is it so surprising. What drives companies may be wholly different to what we imagine. Companies adapt based on what they believe is best for their futures; our ideas of what they will do to adapt may be stuck in the past.

If it does anything to increase the supply of film and health of film companies does it matter anyway?

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

Double Secret Probation!!!

 

[Helge]

The OP and Lachlan seem to have presented some fairly convincing evidence that there is a link. Frankly how many of us here know enough about the "workings" of Fuji and Kodak to make this kind of thing inconceivable

If it makes business sense for both parties to do such things then why is it so surprising. What drives companies may be wholly different to what we imagine. Companies adapt based on what they believe is best for their futures; our ideas of what they will do to adapt may be stuck in the past.

If it does anything to increase the supply of film and health of film companies does it matter anyway?

pentaxuser

So, is it inconceivable or not?

 

[Helge]

Well... if true, this is sad news. It means discontinuation of yet another film from Fuji. Only Superia is left.

Stop yourself.

 

[Don_ih]

If Fuji has difficulty supplying a product they will continue wanting to supply, it makes sense to get someone else to manufacture a substitute for them until they can do it themselves, just to maintain their place in the market. The past couple of years have been a bit unusual for manufacturers.
And since Fuji no longer manufactures motion picture film, Kodak would likely see them more as a potential customer than competitor.

 

[AgX]

See it the other way round. If Fuji would have regarded cine films as profitable, they would not have cancelled them.

 

[Don_ih]

See it the other way round. If Fuji would have regarded cine films as profitable, they would not have cancelled them.

Fuji obviously didn't see motion picture film as profitable - they did stop making them, after all. What is there to see the other way around?

 

[AgX]

As they had to stop, they were no competition for Kodak before. The same with Agfa.

The topic cine films to me seems much overrated.