New flashbulb shipment, unexpected find.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 28, 2014

For the benefit of our younger members. Things you can do with flashbulbs that you can't do with ordinary electronic flash units. Or those cute little LED lights...

O. Winston Link at the Danziger Gallery

(Don't just skip over this link without at least clicking and looking at the fourth photograph.)

:w00t::w00t::w00t:

Ken

mopar_guy · Mar 28, 2014

Link's photographs of steam engines always bring a smile.

StoneNYC · Mar 28, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
For the benefit of our younger members. Things you can do with flashbulbs that you can't do with ordinary electronic flash units. Or those cute little LED lights...

O. Winston Link at the Danziger Gallery

(Don't just skip over this link without at least clicking and looking at the fourth photograph.)

:w00t::w00t::w00t:

Ken

Thanks I was lost about the comments..

But still not sure he used those massive bulbs in his work, the article didn't say he did. But if the look was purposeful and similar to Gregory Crewdson, then I can see the bulb being used.

mopar_guy · Mar 28, 2014

StoneNYC said:
But still not sure he used those massive bulbs in his work

Note that a lot of those photographs were made in the 1930's, and Link was famouse for his use of Flashbulbs.

StoneNYC · Mar 28, 2014

mopar_guy said:
Note that a lot of those photographs were made in the 1930's, and Link was famouse for his use of Flashbulbs.

Gotcha, well he did well

lxdude · Mar 28, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Thanks I was lost about the comments..

But still not sure he used those massive bulbs in his work, the article didn't say he did. But if the look was purposeful and similar to Gregory Crewdson, then I can see the bulb being used.

Oh, he used them, all right.
He could not have frozen motion at night by natural light, and what electronic flash there was in the 50's would have not had nearly enough throw, and any combo rig that could throw like that would have been very expensive and more cumbersome. Flashbulbs ruled back then, and even now make a lot of sense for that scale.

AgX · Mar 28, 2014

German and swiss portable electronic flashlights of the early 50s at a weight from 3-6kg had the same guide number as the strongest handheld flashlights of today.

Mark Crabtree · Mar 28, 2014

Since we've drifted into flashbulb history. Here's what the Iaeger Drive In (3rd picture at the earlier Link link) site looked like a few years ago:

I have an older friend who was actually still using flash powder occasionally into the 70's because he could get more light even than with bulbs. Color yet.

StoneNYC · Mar 29, 2014

Mark Crabtree said:
Since we've drifted into flashbulb history. Here's what the Iaeger Drive In (3rd picture at the earlier Link link) site looked like a few years ago:

I have an older friend who was actually still using flash powder occasionally into the 70's because he could get more light even than with bulbs. Color yet.

Is flash powder easy to make? It must be like a gun powder right?

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 29, 2014

Magnesium powder and potassium nitrate. Pretty powerful stuff.

When my son was in Boy Scouts we issued each scout a small bar of magnesium metal. In an emergency they had been taught to use the files in their all-purpose knives to file off a small pile of shavings and powder, then cover with as close to dry moss as they could find. Once lit it would start almost anything on fire. It will even burn under water. Very handy up here in the PNW rainforest climate.

Fans of the Calumet C1 8x10 metal camera know that Calumet switched from magnesium to aluminum, thus adding about three pounds. The urban legend reason was that one day the local fire marshal arrived for a surprise inspection. The story goes that when he walked in and saw huge piles of magnesium shavings everywhere from the tooling being used, each almost fainted from shock.

Ken

StoneNYC · Mar 29, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Magnesium powder and potassium nitrate. Pretty powerful stuff.

When my son was in Boy Scouts we issued each scout a small bar of magnesium metal. In an emergency they had been taught to use the files in their all-purpose knives to file off a small pile of shavings and powder, then cover with as close to dry moss as they could find. Once lit it would start almost anything on fire. It will even burn under water. Very handy up here in the PNW rainforest climate.

Fans of the Calumet C1 8x10 metal camera know that Calumet switched from magnesium to aluminum, thus adding about three pounds. The urban legend reason was that one day the local fire marshal arrived for a surprise inspection. The story goes that when he walked in and saw huge piles of magnesium shavings everywhere from the tooling being used, each almost fainted from shock.

Ken

Haha that's a great story! Both of them!

I still have a magnesium stick from Boy Scouts

I also have a bunch of magnesium powder from my dad's and my home chemistry kit from being a kid and experimenting. But not much left, just a few grams.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 29, 2014

A reprise of an earlier flashbulb post of mine. Flashbulbs rock...

:w00t:

Here's an example of an entire aircraft hanger lit up nicely by a single Sylvania Press 25 bulb in a modest 5-inch reflector. You can see the shadows up behind the spotlight housings in the rafters to get an idea of just how much light was thrown. The camera was my Pacemaker Crown Graphic 4x5. The photo was made handheld at 1/200 sec. Sorry about the missed hotspot on the nose...

The aircraft itself is Paul Allen's* B-25J Mitchell medium bomber restored to its ground attack configuration. The nose insignia is a tribute to Steven Spielberg's father, Arnold. During World War II, Arnold Spielberg served with the 490th "Skull and Wings" Bombardment Squadron, known as the "Burma Bridge Busters" and became a Communications Chief. He was the inspiration for many of his son's later WWII-based motion pictures.

I'm told that on occasion Mr. Allen has closed down his Flying Heritage Museum and cleared everyone out of this hanger so that he and his good friend Mr. Spielberg could sit under this aircraft's wing while eating picnic lunches. Note that this bomber is not a static museum display piece. It is fully restored, fully air worthy (note the engine drip cans), and next scheduled to fly for the public this upcoming May 17th, weather permitting.

Ken

* Microsoft co-founder along with Bill Gates.

mopar_guy · Mar 29, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
A reprise of an earlier flashbulb post of mine. Flashbulbs rock...

:w00t:

Here's an example of an entire aircraft hanger lit up nicely by a single Sylvania Press 25 bulb in a modest 5-inch reflector. You can see the shadows up behind the spotlight housings in the rafters to get an idea of just how much light was thrown. The camera was my Pacemaker Crown Graphic 4x5. The photo was made handheld at 1/200 sec. Sorry about the missed hotspot on the nose...

The aircraft itself is Paul Allen's* B-25J Mitchell medium bomber restored to its ground attack configuration. The nose insignia is a tribute to Steven Spielberg's father, Arnold. During World War II, Arnold Spielberg served with the 490th "Skull and Wings" Bombardment Squadron, known as the "Burma Bridge Busters" and became a Communications Chief. He was the inspiration for many of his son's later WWII-based motion pictures.

I'm told that on occasion Mr. Allen has closed down his Flying Heritage Museum and cleared everyone out of this hanger so that he and his good friend Mr. Spielberg could sit under this aircraft's wing while eating picnic lunches. Note that this bomber is not a static museum display piece. It is fully restored, fully air worthy (note the engine drip cans), and next scheduled to fly for the public this upcoming May 17th, weather permitting.

Ken

* Microsoft co-founder along with Bill Gates.

I worked on the construction of the new hanger last year. One day, it was foggy, and they had pulled that plane out onto the tarmac. I didn't have a real camera with me but I got a couple of pictures with my cell phone.

Whiteymorange · Mar 29, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Cool! Is that one on the left a UV bulb!?? Good for what? Wet plate or tintype or something?

The one that gets me in that picture of bulbs on display is the middle one, with two small blobs of...what, magnesium powder? at the end of the wires. I'm guessing that's a long-burning bulb for focal plane shutters, but someone else will undoubtedly know.

StoneNYC · Mar 29, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
A reprise of an earlier flashbulb post of mine. Flashbulbs rock...

:w00t:

Here's an example of an entire aircraft hanger lit up nicely by a single Sylvania Press 25 bulb in a modest 5-inch reflector. You can see the shadows up behind the spotlight housings in the rafters to get an idea of just how much light was thrown. The camera was my Pacemaker Crown Graphic 4x5. The photo was made handheld at 1/200 sec. Sorry about the missed hotspot on the nose...

The aircraft itself is Paul Allen's* B-25J Mitchell medium bomber restored to its ground attack configuration. The nose insignia is a tribute to Steven Spielberg's father, Arnold. During World War II, Arnold Spielberg served with the 490th "Skull and Wings" Bombardment Squadron, known as the "Burma Bridge Busters" and became a Communications Chief. He was the inspiration for many of his son's later WWII-based motion pictures.

I'm told that on occasion Mr. Allen has closed down his Flying Heritage Museum and cleared everyone out of this hanger so that he and his good friend Mr. Spielberg could sit under this aircraft's wing while eating picnic lunches. Note that this bomber is not a static museum display piece. It is fully restored, fully air worthy (note the engine drip cans), and next scheduled to fly for the public this upcoming May 17th, weather permitting.

Ken

* Microsoft co-founder along with Bill Gates.

What gets me is the even-ness of light... If you used a modern on camera speedlight, the bright light would all be on the subject on the foreground and the background would be much darker...

Is this a product of the press shutter being slower or the bulb itself?

brianmquinn · Mar 29, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
The one that gets me in that picture of bulbs on display is the middle one, with two small blobs of...what, magnesium powder? at the end of the wires. I'm guessing that's a long-burning bulb for focal plane shutters, but someone else will undoubtedly know.

Flashbulbs with two wires covered with black paste are SM bulbs (Speed Midget) made by GE, Westinghouse and others. They have an egg shape. Sylvania made a similar SF bulb that is more rounded. The wires are coved with primer paste and have no foil (fluffy wire) inside them. They are actually fast bulb and put out most of their light in about 1/200th of a second. The normal #5 or Press 25 bulbs put out light for about 1/30 of a second. The SM bulbs were mainly used with old simple box cameras that had a slow fixed shutter speed of about 1/30th of a second. In order to stop action one would use a SM or SF flashbulb. It is similar to what you get with electronic flash today.

Also when it comes to the foil (It looks like steel wool but it is really very thin foil cut into extremely thin strips during manufacture) inside medium peak #5, or #25 bulbs vs the #6 or #26 focal plane bulbs YES they do differ. The 5 and 25 bulbs have just one type. The #6 and #26 have two types in them, one burns fast and one slow. That way the bulb stays burning longer and a relatively constant light output for so the bulb stays blowing at the same brightness during the travel of a focal plane shutter.

sgbode · Mar 29, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
I'm not the OP, but I'll give some reasons from personal experience...

First, the quality of the light is markedly different. This is primarily because of the much longer "burn" time of bulbs. At the shutter speed you choose you get the same exposure effect as natural sunlight because the light is present during the entire time the shutter is open. What you don't get is the strobe effect of ultra-high-speed xenon flashtubes producing maximum, clinical sharpness at 1/10,000-second bursts of light. Click (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for an example of that maximum sharpness. The platform was in free fall at the moment of exposure. Such sharpness is appropriate for some subjects, but not for all.

Second, using bulbs allows you to vary the GNs by varying the shutter speed. The higher the shutter speed, the lower the GN, because of the lower slice of the total bulb output that is caught on the film. Electronic flashes which implement a "power ratio" feature can simulate that same performance. But not all units have this feature.

Third, the output from portable bulbs is generally higher, and in most cases much higher, than portable electronic flash units. Studio lighting trumps this, but with all of the disadvantages of equipment bulk and weight. The lowly Sylvania Press 25 and its cousins are rated by various manufacturers between GN 200-240 (tungsten, in feet) for 1/100-second shutter speeds at ASA 100. This surpasses just about all portable electronic units, including the monster Sunpak 622 Super handle-mount. (Rated by Sunpak at GN 200, but like almost all portable electronic units is actually a little less than that in the real world.)

Fourth, when paired with older (antique?) cameras, bulbs affect almost total compliance from potential subjects. Most have never seen them, let alone seen them work, let alone been photographed by someone using them. It's like an amazingly alien magic trick to most. I always reward my subjects with the offer of either a scan or print, AND the used bulb popped from its reflector (after it cools). I suspect many are more interested in the burned bulb than the photograph it made possible. Go figure...

Fifth, and not least important, the display and use of ultra-cool vintage flashbulbs and equipment is a highly effective chick magnet. Mostly because the guys are way too embarrassed to admit their ignorance about them. And the girls are often genuinely curious, and not afraid in the least to just walk right up and ask questions.

Ken

Maybe "old hen magnet"

brianmquinn · Mar 29, 2014

StoneNYC said:
What gets me is the even-ness of light... If you used a modern on camera speedlight, the bright light would all be on the subject on the foreground and the background would be much darker...

Is this a product of the press shutter being slower or the bulb itself?

Modern electronic flashes, even big expensive ones, are weak compared to flashbulbs. To light a subject with and modern flash you need to focus the limited amount of light on your subject. This is why modern good flashes have zoom heads to help the flashes have decent reach. Flashbulbs have enough power that they don't need to be focused as much and can spread the light around more evenly. They are really great in big rooms or caves.

MartinCrabtree · Mar 29, 2014

Oh great something else to spend money on. And they are not easy to find. gee thanks.

Oh and BTW cool link to the O. Winston Link site too.

AgX · Mar 29, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
The one that gets me in that picture of bulbs on display is the middle one, with two small blobs of...what, magnesium powder? at the end of the wires. I'm guessing that's a long-burning bulb for focal plane shutters, but someone else will undoubtedly know.

Flash bulbs do not just employ a glowing wire to ignite the metal, but patches of a substance that is more easy to ignite, that will burst apart and by its hot burning morsels will finally ignite the metal.

StoneNYC · Mar 29, 2014

MartinCrabtree said:
Oh great something else to spend money on. And they are not easy to find. gee thanks.

Oh and BTW cool link to the O. Winston Link site too.

Don't forget that you also get the excitement of being confused about what you're buying an end up buying the wrong bulb, and ruining a bunch of images by under or overexposing because you thought you had one bulb but had another that was a mysteriously unlabeled one etc etc... Hah!

Such fun!

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 29, 2014

sgbode said:
Maybe "old hen magnet"

Ahh, grasshopper. When you become an old rooster, THEN you will understand...

(And welcome to APUG.)

Ken

Hatchetman · Mar 29, 2014

They are fun. Shock your subject with a wave of heat and a FWOOSH! sound.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 29, 2014

StoneNYC said:
What gets me is the even-ness of light... If you used a modern on camera speedlight, the bright light would all be on the subject on the foreground and the background would be much darker...

Is this a product of the press shutter being slower or the bulb itself?

It can be the slower shutter speed in the sense that although the overall background intensity is low enough to need flash, it's not zero. So independent of the flash exposure for near objects, the longer the shutter is open, the proportionately more of the ambient light registers from the far objects.

But in this case, I don't believe that was the major factor. I noticed it too the moment I pulled the 4x5 hanger from the wash and held it up to the light. My first thought was, what happened to the inverse of the distance squared? There's no apparent falloff.

The hanger at Paine Field that houses this aircraft is painted bright white inside, including the ceiling. Here's a link to the Flying Heritage Collection web page for this aircraft. Note that the bomber is painted in US Army olive green. A much darker color than white.

I think what may have happened here is that the subject matter itself may have balanced the lighting ratios. The light ceiling reflected much higher than the dark aircraft, naturally bringing the ratio much closer together than it otherwise might have been at their relative distances. Had the plane been hanging by wires directly under that ceiling, the white ceiling would have been closer to pure white.

Instead they just happened to balance each other very nicely at their relative distances from the single flashbulb.

(Oh, and a correction. I checked my notes and the shutter speed was 1/100 of a sec, not 1/200. This would have recorded a longer slice of the flashbulb's total burn time for an effective increase in the guide number.)

Ken

MattKing · Mar 29, 2014

The even lighting from a big flashbulb is as much a function of the reflector as the bulb.

A big reflector is a lot less like a point source than most electronic flashes.

But to get the most out of a big reflector, you need a lot of light.

Can you say "open shadows"?

New flashbulb shipment, unexpected find.

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