New film camera models ever?

elerion · May 19, 2017

Sorry if this is not the correct forum, as it clearly states "This forum is NOT for rumors and speculation.". I found no other better to post.

If anyone wants to shoot film, and owns no camera, all there is is the second hand market.
Even thouh plenty of cameras and equipment are still out there, in good condition, and working order, as time passes by, less and less will there be.
Most cameras that stop working are not worth the money repairing them, and I supose that most them go directly to the trash bin. This, logicaly, states a problem of availability in the future.

As an example, an OM40 I recently bought has died. It's a cheap camera. But it's not a bad camera at all. Very nice to use. I tried to repair it, but I'm not skilled enough. No shutter, no mirror, no advance lever works (and the sprocket cylinder which blocks the film going back into the canister, turns freely, even when not pressing the unlock button).

Do you think that sometime any company will even manufacture film cameras again?

Ian Grant · May 19, 2017

There's plenty of film cameras being made. However most are large format and the issue here is going to be lenses, as for smaller format there's still 35mm cameras being made and the odd MF. Once the glut of second hand cameras wanes then it'll be a different ball game.

Ian

darkosaric · May 19, 2017

Not only that new film cameras are produced today, new camera models are released as well. Leica M7 and MP you can buy new, and new MA model is introduced in 2015. There you have also Lomography that is constantly producing new film cameras for instant film, 120 and 35mm film as well.

AgX · May 19, 2017

Ian Grant said:
There's plenty of film cameras being made.

Just to give a hint at a few SLR models:

Praktica L-family : 5 million

KMZ Zenit E-family: 10 million

Canon A-family : 12 million

AgX · May 19, 2017

Maybe one of the major manufacturers has put the tools for one of their cancelled models in stock. But still, economic production would necessitate an automated production line and that again a large output.

elerion · May 19, 2017

Here in Spain I've never seen any new camera, neither in a local store, neither online, except lomo.
And as my post must have stated, I knew no camera (35mm or MF) being manufactured today (again, except lomo).

Where could I buy a new camera if I wished to, to replace, let's say, a 35mm like the OM40?

locutus · May 19, 2017

darkosaric said:
Leica M7 and MP you can buy new...... also Lomography that is constantly.

And there is a problem, there is no middle ground between 2 extremes. You cant buy something like a Nikon F80 or FE new anymore.

For most people a new Leica M7 is extravagantly expensive and a Lomo far to little and specific.

darkosaric · May 19, 2017

As a middle ground you have upper priced second market only. But even there you can buy almost new cameras that will last a lifetime, like nikon FM3A, or nikon F6.
Why would anybody produced new cameras for the masses - when the masses are not there?

guangong · May 19, 2017

My friends in retail camera sales often related stories of the physician's or lawyer's wives who wanted to buy the "best" (I.e. the most expensive) camera as a gift. They would walk out with a Leica, Nikon or Hasselblad. Hubby, preferred a PS model, so the new best camera would go to the closet. Also, during the decades of the 60s and 70s these cameras became expensive costume jewelry, worn but really never used. So many cameras were made back then that like new cameras will be available for many decades to come. The glut of rugged film cameras and consequent shrinking market for new film cameras was an important reason for the move to manufacture digital cameras, where sales can be stimulated by digital upgrades, although recent sales indicates that this strategy is running out of gas.

elerion · May 19, 2017

I'm not much into Nikon, but even though you can buy a Canon 1n or Canon 1v, I disagree about that they should last a lifetime (and the "v" model is not cheap). Many things can go wrong. It is not only about shutter count; years past affect equiment in may ways. Also, you never know how its former user has handled them, etc,.

darkosaric said:
Why would anybody produced new cameras for the masses - when the masses are not there?

True.

benjiboy · May 19, 2017

They are selling far fewer digital cameras even nowadays, because the average Joe takes his pictures on his smart phone.

Sirius Glass · May 19, 2017

I understand the desire for new equipment and I have owned plenty of new cameras and lenses over the years. However there is still a lot of good used equipment available at good prices.

Bill Burk · May 19, 2017

I only need to take one look at the price of a "new" camera to see that used is a much better choice.

A good idea would be to get a model that is known for reliability, from a reputable dealer like KEH who you can return it to if it isn't working.

Choose a model that has reliable available repair people, then send this good used camera for a CLA (clean, lube and adjust).

For OM, look for John Hermanson. I would choose a mechanical model such as OM-1.

That will get you a new camera, which can give you many years of future use.

michr · May 19, 2017

I've discovered over the past couple of years how many things I like about film cameras: the diversity of styles and formats, the encoded world history, the way they feel to hold and use, the aesthetic value, the weight of brass in my hand. Unfortunately, I've found that 35mm film just isn't worth the trouble. The images are far too small to be worth paying money for. I think most people have this same opinion, 35mm isn't worth the trouble. There is no mass market for 35mm film cameras. Manufacturers either need high margins on high-quality equipment (e.g. Leica) or lower-quality (e.g. Lomo), or with expensive consumables made by the same company (instant). The days where there was enough volume to make a complex camera for an mid-range price are gone.

Anyone bringing out a camera now has to compete with an enormous used market that is more than sufficient to satisfy demand. Once that used market has dwindled to the last remaining bits of functional equipment, will film still be made? I wouldn't bet on it. At some point, all of the electronics-based film cameras wont' be fully functional, all the meters will be dead, all the focal plane shutters dust, bellows full of holes, etc. Yet there will be a broad selection of cameras still available with none of these problems because of the way they're made, leaf shutters, rigid bodies, etc, and even then will be cheaper than bringing out a new camera.

The answer to OPs question isn't a whole lot different than asking about new record players. Perhaps a few at the low and high ends, even with vinyl's resurgence, it will never again be a product that everyone owns or aspires to own.

I was contemplating a few days ago. What if it were possible to make a direct clone of some 1950s rangefinder, I was thinking specifically of the Clarus MS-35,but feel free to substitute your favorite rangefinder. Assuming you had customers lined up to buy every one of the cameras you made, what price point would make it profitable to make every gear, cast or mill every part? That's assuming there are no patents, r&d, etc, just a direct part for part copy of some existing camera. The price of a Clarus is less than $50 for a nice clean one, a used screw mount Leica often less than $200. Who can compete with that?

Edit: I chose Clarus as an example since I'd been working on mine to get the shutter going, and since it's relatively crude compared to the majority of rangefinder cameras.

Europan · May 19, 2017

I work on a new 35mm film motion picture camera, actually have been already for some years, with longer unproductive intervals than productive times. Quite different from everything known up to now. Silent investor welcome, ready to share 60/40

Pioneer · May 19, 2017

I think it will depend on what you want.

I have been able to buy several new cameras in the online markets.

If you want an SLR there is the Vivitar V3800n, the Nikon FM-10 and the Lomo LCA. The more expensive alternative is the Nikon F6.

In rangefinders there are still Voigtlander Bessa cameras for sale including at least the Bessa R2C and Bessa R3A. Going more expensive there are 3 Leica film models available.

Medium Format is a bit more difficult to find but BHPhoto still has a few new Fujifilm GF670 folding camera (wonderful camera), again there lots of Lomo options, and several of the large format camera manufacturers like Horseman and Linhoff make medium format models on special order.

It isn't really worth going into all of the large format models available new. This may be the healthiest part of the new camera market.

There certainly are not as many new film cameras out there as there used to be, but they still exist. I am certain that there are far more models available out there then I have listed here. These are only the ones I could quickly verifiy.

And the use market is huge. Don't discount buying a used camera and then sending it to a skilled technician to have it cleaned and overhauled. For around $1200 I purchased and then had a Leica III completely overhauled (not a simple Cleaning, Lubricating and Adjustment known as a CLA.) This is far more in depth and includes a full cleaning and the replacement of any worn components. If parts are still available you will come away with what is basically a new camera under the skin.

macfred · May 19, 2017

Another solution for Medium Format by ALPA (Capaul & Weber, Zurich) - for example the ALPA TC-12 with adapters for various analog (and dig....) backs.

http://www.greiner-photo.de/alpa-themenshop/alpa-kameragehaeuse-hidden/alpa-12-tc-detail

http://www.greiner-photo.de/index.php?virtuemart_category_id[]=75&option=com_customfilters&view=products&Itemid=227

RalphLambrecht · May 19, 2017

elerion said:
Sorry if this is not the correct forum, as it clearly states "This forum is NOT for rumors and speculation.". I found no other better to post.

If anyone wants to shoot film, and owns no camera, all there is is the second hand market.
Even thouh plenty of cameras and equipment are still out there, in good condition, and working order, as time passes by, less and less will there be.
Most cameras that stop working are not worth the money repairing them, and I supose that most them go directly to the trash bin. This, logicaly, states a problem of availability in the future.

As an example, an OM40 I recently bought has died. It's a cheap camera. But it's not a bad camera at all. Very nice to use. I tried to repair it, but I'm not skilled enough. No shutter, no mirror, no advance lever works (and the sprocket cylinder which blocks the film going back into the canister, turns freely, even when not pressing the unlock button).

Do you think that sometime any company will even manufacture film cameras again?

This of course depends purely on the demand.also,keep inmind that many existing cameras have a life of 50+ years if well cared for

pbromaghin · May 19, 2017

New film cameras? Start here:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Film-Cameras/ci/9812/N/4288586278

AgX · May 19, 2017

That listing lacks the Phenix SLR. Maybe it already got cancelled.

cmacd123 · May 20, 2017

As existing film cameras break down, the price of a working film camera will go up and it will be worthwhile to overhaul existing broken cameras. Often a broken camera only needs minor repairs and one of more parts out of a parts camera.

example, Minolta X series X370 etc, can have a shutter not working that is caused by the failure of a commonly available 50 cent capacitor. An CLA will catch that and can be done these days for 60-100 dollars. the same price will buy a used camera that may or may not work. SO 200 bucks will provide a well adjusted and long working camera.

Also means that any broken cameras you have are probably worth stashing for the future. (or selling to a repair person as spare parts units.)

Old-N-Feeble · May 20, 2017

The eventuality is the same as everything else. The answer is best posed as more questions: How many film movie cameras are made today? How many analog audio players are made today? How many analog TVs are made today? How many radio and TV broadcasts are analog today? How many here know how to use a slide rule... and of those who do, how many of their kids do? Is that an analog computer you're typing on?

The end is inevitable... but we will fight 'til the bitter last moments.

MattKing · May 20, 2017

You will start to see more film cameras being manufactured when there is either:
1) money to be made selling them or;
2) money to be made selling something else because of the availability of new cameras (think of the Instax line).
As fully usable used cameras become less available, the chance of their being money to be made increases.
There is also the possibility that technological progress may result in new camera manufacturing methods that will reduce costs, and accelerate the affordability of new camera replacements.

chip j · May 20, 2017

I am SO TIRED of buying OLD equipment!

elerion · May 22, 2017

Thanks for your comments. I basically agree with all of them.
I stored the two non operative cameras I have. I might try to work on them in the future, something I'm really interested on (but learning is not an easy task). As last resort, sell as spares.

It's true that new 35mm film cameras would be much (much) more expensive than used ones. If people are not willing to pay that much, is obvious that companies are not going to manufacture them.

And talking about large format, which I haven't yet tried, there're even DIY models, but you still need to get an expensive old lens and shutter. And the used market is not full of them. They are hard to see and get at reasonable price, at least in Spain, and are scarce (generaly) in Europe.
I think there're new lenses and shutters (even electronic shutters), but I supose they are VERY expensive.

New film camera models ever?

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