New Efke 400

[braxus]

I noticed this film on Freestyle's website. I've have read (another post on this forum) Efke 400 is a new emulsion they just released/ produced this year, not the old stuff based off of/ reboxed Ilford's HP5+. Yes this is a new emulsion. What I'm wondering is if anyone has ordered this from Freestyle and if so is it the new film or rebranded Ilford stuff? And if it is the new film what are your thoughts on it? I'd assume its a high silver content film similar to their other slower films. But how is its look? My film of choice in 400 is Tri-X 400 and it (Efke 400) will have to be good for me to stop using that. I'd assume Tri-X will still be finer grained. I like the look of TX outdoors and indoors with flash. But being I like Efke 25 I'm itching to see if the 400 competes and may be worth taking up, especially if Kodak ditches TX 400 in 120. Ok anyone buy a roll yet? I'm going to call Freestyle tomorrow for more info and may add 2 rolls to a back ordered order.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?pid=1000001828

The above is the link for this film (rebranded or new?). No word if J&C will bring in the same film under the Adox name or not. Keep in mind this is not the Ilford films rebranded either they have on their site under Adox CHM.

http://www.adoxfilm.de/ADOX_Chemie/Filmentwickler/Filmentwickler.html

Above is a link to Adox's website, yet I don't see any info on the new 400 film.

 

[braxus]

I talked to Freestyle and they said yes this is the new film. They've had it since May. The dev time for D76 is around 7.5 minutes, maybe closer to 8. If anyone has used this new film and done it in Xtol- let me know what time they did it for. At the moment Im sticking with 8 minutes. I ordered 2 rolls today.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I too bought a roll in my recent order from Freestyle, but haven't tried it yet. I've been reading past threads and saw some rather contradictory comments on the nature of the emulsion. There used the be Adox CHM 400, which was clearly repackaged Ilford film. Apparently it was also sold under the Efke brand (never saw it myself).

Then Simon Galley from Ilford said that the KB400 on Freestyle's site isn't repackaged Ilford film, except "in a long time ago." John from J&C said that it would be some old HP5 (not plus) that was sitting on the shelves since 4 years ago, and that is now rebranded.

Braxus, can you testify under oath that the Efke KB400 sold by Freestyle is an independently developed emulsion produced by Fotokemika? In other words, can you swear that this is really a new chemical entity, hitherto absent from the surface of the earth, so that we can clear the confusion once and for all???

 

[braxus]

Braxus, can you testify under oath that the Efke KB400 sold by Freestyle is an independently developed emulsion produced by Fotokemika? In other words, can you swear that this is really a new chemical entity, hitherto absent from the surface of the earth, so that we can clear the confusion once and for all???

Sorry I can't. I don't know trade secrets, so I'm just going from what I've been told. There is a post on the product availability forum about a guy who just got this new film from Croatia. But they advertise this film like all their others- high silver content. And I know Ilford HP5 is not high silver. And Freestyle has only had this since May so I would be led to believe its a new film. If it was just repackaged HP5 it would have been out a long time ago. But I did find it interesting to note that the developing time for straight D76 for both HP5 and Efke 400 are both listed at 7.5 minutes. I don't think Efke 400 is the same as Adox CHM 400 as far as I know. But I would say since Ilford no longer repackages film under different names, that for Efke to release a new film now that is HP5 would be a bad move. What happens when they run out of stock that Ilford no longer supplies? I wouldn't be suprised if the Efke 400 film was based off HP5 and therefore uses its time as well. But I won't know for sure until I get my rolls and use them.

 

[Jeremy]

If this is the new Efke400, where will it be released in larger sizes? (4x5/8x10/7x17 etc)

 

[braxus]

I would suspect they are starting out with 35mm and then later branching out to bigger sizes. If anyone uses a roll of this soon, please post results. When I get mine I think I'll shoot it along with HP5+ to compare to and see what really is going on.

 

[edz]

John from J&C said that it would be some old HP5 (not plus) that was sitting on the shelves since 4 years ago, and that is now rebranded.

Let me get this straight.. John "Adox glass house" Minakais has claimed that film sold by a "competitor" (Freestyle in Los Angeles, a company that I've known and done business with back to when they were on Hollywood Blvd, that was the blunt of evil rumours following the default of Ilford) is rebranded old stocks ("sitting on the shelves") of expired (since 4 years ago) and obsolete-- "HP5 (not plus)"-- films?

Might be.. might not be.. Often it does not matter. I know a couple of good films being sold as "fresh" that are of emulsions that saw their last production run, I think, when "Bomb the Bass" was "fresh".

The question is: Is the film good.? And to answer that we need to wait for some tests.. and some practical "real-life" experience..

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Edz, you really don't like John, don't you? I don't really care to know if you've had problems with him. I'm just curious about the film.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I used some KB400 once upon a time which was very much like Ilford HP5. The canisters really sucked, though, and there were light leaks everywhere. Very unreliable in that respect. The film was OK.

- Thom

 

[Alicouscous]

Efke KB400 and Adox CHM400 are EXACTLY the same .
Fotokemika rebrands only ilford HP5 and put it in differents boxes for their different customers , chm400 for JandC and fotoimpex, EfkeKB400 for the others .
Adox Is only one customer from Fotokemika, they buy films and put their names on the boxes .If KB400 are old expired stocks, so CHM400 are exactly the same thing ;-)))))))))
JandC and Fotoimpex have tried to make us think that Efke was dead and only Adox is leaving, but Fotokemika has found new resellers for their films with their Brand Efke and it's why you can find them again now .
This film is not a new emulsion .

 

[rjas]

Efke KB400 and Adox CHM400 are EXACTLY the same .
Fotokemika rebrands only ilford HP5 and put it in differents boxes for their different customers , chm400 for JandC and fotoimpex, EfkeKB400 for the others .
Adox Is only one customer from Fotokemika, they buy films and put their names on the boxes .If KB400 are old expired stocks, so CHM400 are exactly the same thing ;-)))))))))
JandC and Fotoimpex have tried to make us think that Efke was dead and only Adox is leaving, but Fotokemika has found new resellers for their films with their Brand Efke and it's why you can find them again now .
This film is not a new emulsion .

If CHM400 and KB400 is expired Hp5, I'd be pretty choked at buying this film under the impression that it is fresh with a 2008 expiry date on the box. I've got some CHM400 here with an expiry of 2008 on the box and it looks just like Hp5+ but with dodgy Adox CHM400 imprinting on the neg. I don't see any extra fog or anything but I don't use a densitometer.
Having said that I'm fairly certain that CHM400 at least is fresh Hp5+ as I don't think any dealer would stoop to that low of a level of selling expired old type Hp5 (not plus) and telling everyone it is fresh Hp5+ and selling boatloads of it.


But I've seen shadier things happen...

I think Ilford did a good thing by cutting off all it's re-branded film supplies. It was getting too confusing. We shouldn't even have to speculate if a certain film is really another film with a different name on it and wether it is just expired stock or not...

 

[Alicouscous]

I didn't say Adox CHM400 is expired film ^^
I said Efke KB400 and adox Chm400 are the same film, so if JandC say that the Efke KB400 is old expired stock, so their Adox CHM is old expired stock too ;-))

I've got ten box from Efke KB400 in my fridge, and expiration date is 2008 too ;-))

Don't be affraid, your CHm400 is fresh, JandC are just angry to see the Efke name again on the market .

 

[tim atherton]

I didn't say Adox CHM400 is expired film ^^
.

You appear to:

Efke KB400 and Adox CHM400 are EXACTLY the same .
Fotokemika rebrands only ilford HP5 and put it in differents boxes for their different customers , chm400 for JandC and fotoimpex, EfkeKB400 for the others .

I don't think any HP5 stock that is left today would be fresh? What year did Ilford stop making it?

 

[Alicouscous]

yes, excuse me, i had to say HP5+..........of course

Personnaly, i've used adox CHM400 and now I use Efke KB400 I've found in croatia - i didn't see any differences and the two films are fine and not expensive ( but Efke400 in Croatia is very very very cheap ;-)) )

 

[sanking]

I didn't say Adox CHM400 is expired film ^^
I said Efke KB400 and adox Chm400 are the same film, so if JandC say that the Efke KB400 is old expired stock, so their Adox CHM is old expired stock too ;-))

I've got ten box from Efke KB400 in my fridge, and expiration date is 2008 too ;-))

Don't be affraid, your CHm400 is fresh, JandC are just angry to see the Efke name again on the market .

So why does Freestyle not market this film as Efke 400, which is a much more familiar brand name in the USA than CHM400? Does someone else own the brand name Efke for marketing in the USA?

Sandy

 

[Alicouscous]

They do my friend ^^

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?pid=1000001828

 

[sanking]

They do my friend ^^

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?pid=1000001828

Well, this is pretty confusing. Why then is Freestyle selling the same film with two different names?

Or, what did I miss?

Sandy

 

[Alicouscous]

JandC sells adox
Freestyle sells Efke

 

[sanking]

JandC sells adox
Freestyle sells Efke

But it is the same film, right?

Sandy

 

[rjas]

and what are they (efke) gonna do in a few months when their stock of rebranded hp5+ dries up? release yet another film under the same name but this time its gonna be foma? ahhhhhhh!

 

[Alicouscous]

and what are they (efke) gonna do in a few months when their stock of rebranded hp5+ dries up?

I don't know ;-)))))))))
Probably they'll continue to sell their 25-50-100 CHS line , and will announce the 400 has been discontinued ^^ , or maybe will they sell repackaged-TriX...........

 

[Paul Howell]

I have never know Kodak to reband any of their products.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I was under the impression that there's a new KB400 and an old KB400.

1. KB400 used to be rebranded HP5 (I think it was only marketed in Europe, could never find it in the US, but had no problems getting it when I lived in Sweden)
2. The 400 speed emulsion that Efke is now launching in the US should as far as I know be a new one that they've developed themselves.

Hope I'm not adding to the confusion.

- Thom

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Actually, let me make my own statement questionable. I had read that the 400 speed emulsion from Efke should have been a new one, somewhere, but can't find it. I don't trust my own memory enough.

- Thom

 

[timeUnit]

I might be talking to myself here but...

I've decided to buy Ilford HP5+ when I want HP5+, Efke 100 when I want that etc and avoid these rebranded films. They just confuse the market, and are of course much more volatile than films with the "correct" brand.

Also, I'd like to support Ilford in their aim to produce premium BW films. I've also had quite a few problems with Ilford/Efke/Adox films, and would rather buy film with high standard of QC with the Ilford brand at the premium price, to be able to speak up to Ilford if I have any problems. If I have problems with Adox films, I always feel that I can't expect the same quality at the low price I'm getting.

The exception is Adox Papers which I find great in every way and will continue to use.