New darkroom easel....looking for input

[Mark Fisher]

I have a product development consultancy (medical devices for start ups), but I also want to produce a line of traditional photographic products. I recently presented at Photostock a few potential products including a masking easel. I made a version of it a few years ago. I was tired to dealing with a four blade easel because it was difficult to consistently position the blades so I can use pre-cut matts, the corners were never as straight as I'd like, the adjustments were hard to make in the dark, it was difficult to consistently align the paper, and finally, I couldn't enlarge as much as I wanted since the blades and the easel border were so large. I decided to design a masking easel where I make masks for each paper size I use and each aspect ratio (e.g. 1:1, 6x9, 4x5, 1:2, etc). The easel and masks have rare earth magnets in them to make the masks self-aligning and press curled paper flat. I designed it for the way I print, but I want to make sure I address the way others print. If I make these, I can either make a standard set with standard borders or I can make them totally custom for some additional cost. I'm not sure what I'll need to charge yet. I don't expect to make much money on this as there are only so many darkroom printers out there who aren't happy with their easels, but I should be able to make it work by using rapid prototyping techniques allowing low volume, and possibly customized, production. Here is a youtube video showing how it is used (essentially a short version of what I presented at Photostock). Finally and most important, I'd appreciate your input about the final features of the easel. The SurveyMonkey survey is here. It is totally anonymous and it will help to define the final product. It takes about 30-60 seconds to complete. Thanks for your help.

 

[Neal]

Hi Mark,

It looks like you have a nice sturdy easel that seems pretty easy to use. My personal style does not lend itself to your design as, other than an early "proofing" (Where I look at the negatives and print full frame to an 8x10 sheet of RC.), I always enlarge as much as I like and crop away until it looks good without regard to the paper proportion. My only real suggestion here might be the ability to add one's own mask made from mat board. It might give it a little more flexibility without compromising the idea of your design too badly.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[NedL]

I was hoping to get one a few years ago when you first mentioned this good idea. I'll fill out your survey after work today.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Like everything else in life, it would depend how much it costs.

I think you need a matte black material.

The base needs to be heavy so it doesn't move.

A hinging mechanism would be better, but would probably be costly.

Good idea though. I was thinking of making something similar since I share your same love for prints that are just a little different in size.....

 

[Mark Fisher]

Thanks for the responses. I've received 26 responses on the Survey Monkey post with about 75% saying they'd be interested in buying such thing. That seems like it is worth moving forward with, but I hoped for a few more. Right now, it looks like it will be an 11x14 easel with masks for 11x14, 8x10 and 5x7. The mask aspect ratios will be square, 6x9 and maximum for paper size. The square and 6x9 will have a wider bottom boarder than the top. The minimum border width seems to be split between 1/2" and 1". I think I'll probably split the difference. I'll be visiting a company who may make the parts. If the price is decent, I'll have them make the plastic parts.....if not, I'll make them myself. It is really obvious that people want custom sizes so I'll definitely offer them longer term. I'll need to get a small CNC router but I'm always up for more toys!

 

[jeffreyg]

I think your product will be helpful for some. I have two Saunders easels 11x14 and 16x20. Both have grooves to position the paper and the blades square up nicely. I don't standardize my image sizes but crop accordingly with the blades. I only mat and window mat when needed. I used to dry-mount but now only do that when requested. I found using archival corners to be more practical especially if something were to happen to the mounting board such as "climate" stains plus less room required for storage and the cost tied up with a print sitting in a box.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[voceumana]

My favorite easel is a Saunders 5x7 "5 in 1" easel which provides the following sizes: 2-1/2 by 3-1/2; 3-1/2 by 5; 4 by 5, 5 by 5, and 5 x 7. It is elegant in its simplicity. It consist of a stamped heavy steel base forming with short lips of about 1/4 inch on 3 of the sides, the 4th side being open so paper can slide in. A hinged frame of 1/4 inch square cross section bar stock provides fixed 1/4 inch borders on 5x7. An optional bar crosses the 5 inch side, with dimples to place it at 3-1/2, 4, and 5 inch positions and a single spring loaded ball bearing at each end of the bar to press into the dimples for fixed positions.

Although I have other expensive easels, this is the one I've used most often since I bought my first one over 50 years ago. I bought a second one as a back up some time ago, though the first one has only needed to have its rubber bottom pads replaced and still works fine.

I've also purchased Saunders single-size easels for 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20 which use the same design but without the adjustable bar. I only wish they included an adjustable bar for half and square formats like the 5x7 has.

 

[randyB]

Good luck with your project.

Myself, I use my own masking system that I copied/modified from several commercially available "systems" that were on the market back in the 80's-90's. I use single size Saunders easels with a mask specifically cut from Rubylith or orange mask. I hold everything flat with strip magnets, this makes for a crisp edge of the image. I even made a mask that can give sharp black borders with the full-frame rebate of 35mm (6x9 image on 8x10 paper).

 

[Mark Fisher]

Good luck with your project.

Myself, I use my own masking system that I copied/modified from several commercially available "systems" that were on the market back in the 80's-90's. I use single size Saunders easels with a mask specifically cut from Rubylith or orange mask. I hold everything flat with strip magnets, this makes for a crisp edge of the image. I even made a mask that can give sharp black borders with the full-frame rebate of 35mm (6x9 image on 8x10 paper).

That is the sort of thing I was inspired by. I tried using a metal sheet and sheet magnet material and, while it worked, it was not exactly convenient. That said, I did end up with something that worked better for my needs so I looked for improvements and over the last few years, I think I have something that other folks may like. You do point out another benefit, though: if you want a black line around the full frame image, a masking frame lets you do that pretty easily so long as the carrier allows it. I happen to have glass carriers for both of my enlargers....although some mount board with an oversize cutout works equally well!

 

[tim_walls]

Thanks for the responses. I've received 26 responses on the Survey Monkey post with about 75% saying they'd be interested in buying such thing. That seems like it is worth moving forward with, but I hoped for a few more. Right now, it looks like it will be an 11x14 easel with masks for 11x14, 8x10 and 5x7. The mask aspect ratios will be square, 6x9 and maximum for paper size. The square and 6x9 will have a wider bottom boarder than the top. The minimum border width seems to be split between 1/2" and 1". I think I'll probably split the difference. I'll be visiting a company who may make the parts. If the price is decent, I'll have them make the plastic parts.....if not, I'll make them myself. It is really obvious that people want custom sizes so I'll definitely offer them longer term. I'll need to get a small CNC router but I'm always up for more toys!

I love your product idea, and if you hit the kind of price point mentioned in the survey, I'm definitely in the market.

That said, I'm astonished that people go for such huge borders on their prints! Maybe for 11x14 half an inch isn't too much (I can't comprehend wanting to lose 1" off each edge to be honest,) but on an 8x10 it seems crazy. My standard border for 8x10s is 4mm (approx 1/8th inch.)

Have I completely misunderstood something??

 

[spijker]

Same here; a 5mm border on 8x10 and 10mm on 11x14. Although I usually print at the negative aspect ratio (4:3) so that means wider borders on the long side than the mentioned 5 and 10 mm. A 10 mm border allows me to frame the photo with a small white border between the actual image and the mat. I never frame 8x10, too small.

 

[Mark Fisher]

The latest results show a split between 1/2 and 1". I usually go with 1/2 which seems to be enough to avoid any edge discolorations that sometimes happen. On the other hand, I know a lot of folks who go larger. In the end, I think I'm going half inch on the 5x7 and 3/4 on 8x10 and 11x14. I'm also thinking about including a post card size (4x6) for those who want it. I'm hoping to have quotes back around July 15 and then I'll decide if it makes sense to move forward. I'm also considering making a 16x20 version. If it looks like there is enough interest and the first product works out. We'll see!

 

[Mick Fagan]

I use 5x7”, 8x10” and 12x16” paper, which is what is mainly available in this country. Although one can find 11x14” paper sometimes, I have never bothered to use it. Ilford postcard paper 100mm x 150mm, is no longer available in this country, so I no longer use it; it was the smallest paper I and quite a few others used.

With regard to border width, when I use a white border on a print that is, I use (approximately) 5mm on 5x7”, 10mm on 8x10” and 12x16” I could live with 12.7mm (½”) on the larger sizes, but no way would I give away 25.4mm (1”) on the larger sizes.

One paper size I use a lot, is 5x8”, which is 8x10” split down the middle. This is a very close ratio to 35mm film and works a treat. I have a Jobo Varioformat easel and this is one of the sizes one can use when loaded with 8x10” paper. It is pretty much my go to size, for 35mm prints. If possible, you may entertain the thought of making a 20mm slip in divider for your 8x10” easel. If your border was 10mm, then a 20mm slip in divider would be perfect for making two 5x8” prints with a 10mm border on a single 8x10” piece of paper. This is an easel I would certainly purchase.

Mick.

 

[Mark Fisher]

I use 5x7”, 8x10” and 12x16” paper, which is what is mainly available in this country. Although one can find 11x14” paper sometimes, I have never bothered to use it. Ilford postcard paper 100mm x 150mm, is no longer available in this country, so I no longer use it; it was the smallest paper I and quite a few others used.

With regard to border width, when I use a white border on a print that is, I use (approximately) 5mm on 5x7”, 10mm on 8x10” and 12x16” I could live with 12.7mm (½”) on the larger sizes, but no way would I give away 25.4mm (1”) on the larger sizes.

One paper size I use a lot, is 5x8”, which is 8x10” split down the middle. This is a very close ratio to 35mm film and works a treat. I have a Jobo Varioformat easel and this is one of the sizes one can use when loaded with 8x10” paper. It is pretty much my go to size, for 35mm prints. If possible, you may entertain the thought of making a 20mm slip in divider for your 8x10” easel. If your border was 10mm, then a 20mm slip in divider would be perfect for making two 5x8” prints with a 10mm border on a single 8x10” piece of paper. This is an easel I would certainly purchase.

Mick.

Interesting idea with the 5x8 prints. I'll have to think about that a bit. Borders seem to be a really personal thing. The survey seems roughly evenly split between 1/2 and 1 inch. What my plan is for now is to use 1/2 on 5x7 and 3/4" on larger sizes. Right now, I'm on the fence about the 12x16 paper. It is almost non-existent here in the states and I'm not sure how many people would be interested overseas. Only 14% of the respondents in the survey mentioned 12x16. If this works out, I'll probably be offering a larger size that will use the same masks as the smaller size but also have 16x20. I would also make it so it could accept 12x16. I'm almost certain that I will offer custom masks anyway so adding the 12x16 for the larger easel would be pretty simple. I do need to think about the 5x8 mask though!

 

[mshchem]

My favorite easel is a Saunders 5x7 "5 in 1" easel which provides the following sizes: 2-1/2 by 3-1/2; 3-1/2 by 5; 4 by 5, 5 by 5, and 5 x 7. It is elegant in its simplicity. It consist of a stamped heavy steel base forming with short lips of about 1/4 inch on 3 of the sides, the 4th side being open so paper can slide in. A hinged frame of 1/4 inch square cross section bar stock provides fixed 1/4 inch borders on 5x7. An optional bar crosses the 5 inch side, with dimples to place it at 3-1/2, 4, and 5 inch positions and a single spring loaded ball bearing at each end of the bar to press into the dimples for fixed positions.

Although I have other expensive easels, this is the one I've used most often since I bought my first one over 50 years ago. I bought a second one as a back up some time ago, though the first one has only needed to have its rubber bottom pads replaced and still works fine.

I've also purchased Saunders single-size easels for 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20 which use the same design but without the adjustable bar. I only wish they included an adjustable bar for half and square formats like the 5x7 has.

Ditto! I want a 4x6 and a 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 both for postcards. I have conservatively 30 plus easels. That little 5 in 1 Saunders gets a lot of use.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Ditto! I want a 4x6 and a 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 both for postcards. I have conservatively 30 plus easels. That little 5 in 1 Saunders gets a lot of use.

Ilford postcard paper is 4x6. Is there another postcard paper that is 3 1/2 x 5 1/2? The limitation of the easel I am proposing is that a half inch border is about the minimum. If I were to make a strictly postcard easel, I'd probably use an approach more like an old borderless easel since the postcard stock is RC and really flat....and whatever curve there is is always in the same direction. Maybe an old borderless easel would work well as they exist. I may have to grab on on ebay and check it out. I suspect you could also make black or rubylith masks for it also.

 

[Hubigpielover]

I like it. Hope you keep us up to date.

 

[mshchem]

Ilford postcard paper is 4x6. Is there another postcard paper that is 3 1/2 x 5 1/2? The limitation of the easel I am proposing is that a half inch border is about the minimum. If I were to make a strictly postcard easel, I'd probably use an approach more like an old borderless easel since the postcard stock is RC and really flat....and whatever curve there is is always in the same direction. Maybe an old borderless easel would work well as they exist. I may have to grab on on ebay and check it out. I suspect you could also make black or rubylith masks for it also.

3 1/2 x 5 1/2 post card paper is extinct. I have cut down 11x14 (makes 8 postcards) this is the old school US std. UK uses (at least Ilford still makes) 4x6 back printed heavy stock post card stock. I love this material, I currently use an antique speed ez easel, Ganz made just about anything you could ask for as a special, (I also have a 3 1/2 x 7 for photo Christmas cards). MHO all post cards should have a 3/16 " border.