New black and white fibre-based papers from Ilford

Thanks Ilford-I was missing Forte Polygrade but now I just might die with a smile on my face after all

Just thinking out loud. Looking at the data and the curves, I find the paper not too dissimilar to Kentmere VC Fineprint. Mmm, just thinking out loud.

AndreasT said:

Just thinking out loud. Looking at the data and the curves, I find the paper not too dissimilar to Kentmere VC Fineprint. Mmm, just thinking out loud.

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Interesting comment which I have seen on another forum based largely in the U.K.

pentaxuser

AndreasT said:

...Looking at the data and the curves, I find the paper not too dissimilar to Kentmere VC Fineprint...

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I don't see much similarity. Compare curves and dmax:



Multigrade FB Cooltone seems to top out at 2.0 and exhibits much less toe compared to Fineprint VC FB, which goes to 2.2.

ISO contrast ranges by numbered filter are rather different, as are their ISO speeds. While HARMAN might have incorporated aspects of Fineprint's characteristics into Cooltone, it seems very unlikely that this new paper is simply Fineprint re-packaged.

Black Dog said:

Thanks Ilford-I was missing Forte Polygrade but now I just might die with a smile on my face after all

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The one thing I loved about polygrade was how it turns the most beautiful cold chocolate color in selenium.

Is it Cooltone that's like Fineprint or the revised MG Classic? I'd think the latter - Fineprint could yield a cool tone but from what I've heard was more of a neutral to coolish paper that could be coaxed colder, rather than "born cold."

I would expect Ilford Multigrade Cooltone FB to have the same emulsion as their Cooltone RC paper which is a different beast altogether than Kentmere Fineprint and VC Select.

Multigrade Cooltone RC was introduced by Ilford well before they bought out Kentmere papers. If the FB paper is like the RC paper, then those wanting a true cold tone paper are in for a treat.

Sal Santamaura said:

I don't see much similarity. Compare curves and dmax:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20131161220152705.pdf​

http://www.kentmere.co.uk/Webfiles/20093161412372020.pdf​

Multigrade FB Cooltone seems to top out at 2.0 and exhibits much less toe compared to Fineprint VC FB, which goes to 2.2.

ISO contrast ranges by numbered filter are rather different, as are their ISO speeds. While HARMAN might have incorporated aspects of Fineprint's characteristics into Cooltone, it seems very unlikely that this new paper is simply Fineprint re-packaged.

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Exactly, a different emulsion altogether than the Kentmere papers.

Know what would be really cool [pun intended?] If they took the occasion of bringing out Cooltone paper in FB to also bring back Harman Cooltone Developer. It was discussed here before and I believe Simon brought it up but it was turned down. Now would be a great time, to go with the new paper.

pstake said:

Any insight as to how these papers will Lith?

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Tim Rudman has tested them and they don't. He will be publishing a review of the papers very soon in his newsletter

trotkiller said:

Tim Rudman has tested them and they don't. He will be publishing a review of the papers very soon in his newsletter

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Oh, well. Looks like we can't have everything then! Still, a good range of high quality FB papers which respond well to toning isn't bad.

What developer?

Yes it would be great if the Cooltone developer was also broght back by Ilford. That would seal the deal and make life simple.

However...assuming they dont bring it back...can Ilford at least say which existing developers give the coldest results. Ilford Multigrade? Dekton? Edwal Ultra Black? ???

Ilford is probably going to recommend only their own developers. Since I use LPD I'll try it in that, maybe 1+1 (for the powder mix.)

They might update the RC line of papers (IV RC DELUXE and IV RC PORTFOLIO) in the near future to match their CLASSIC FB paper.

Developer

Roger

You are of course right that Ilford will probably only recommend their own developer...but as a counter example i remember my favorite paper of all time, Forte Polygrade, came with instructions recommending Dektol for neutral, Zonal for cool, and Edwal Ultra Black for cold tone.

Now, it is true Forte didn't have its own developer (although there did seem to be a partnership with Zonal), but nonetheless what a fantastic way to respect its customers to give this information.

Of course if Ilford offers its cool tone developer they needn't bother - i think we would all gladly use it - but if not info on different developers would really be appreciated...just like Forte

Bruce Robbins said:

Oh, well. Looks like we can't have everything then! Still, a good range of high quality FB papers which respond well to toning isn't bad.

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Yes, and Ilford already created the perfect paper with Galerie. Has everything except being VC.

pstake said:

Yes, and Ilford already created the perfect paper with Galerie. Has everything except being VC.

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Gallerie liths?

Serious question - I've never lith printed and haven't used Gallerie (or indeed any grades paper) in decades and I understand that was a rather different Gallerie but in context of this discussion it made me wonder.


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Roger Cole said:

Gallerie liths?

Serious question - I've never lith printed and haven't used Gallerie (or indeed any grades paper) in decades and I understand that was a rather different Gallerie but in context of this discussion it made me wonder.


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Hi Roger -

I didn't have much luck getting Galerie to Lith but it tones beautifully!

Maybe this is their replacement for KENTMERE Fineprint VC FB.
It was always a cooler tone paper.
see (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I may have spoken too soon, Roger... Ilfobrom (galerie predessor) liths well. I thought galerie was the same formula renamed. I have a pack of galerie to open when my ilfobrom runs out.


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Roger Cole said:

Ilford is probably going to recommend only their own developers. Since I use LPD I'll try it in that, maybe 1+1 (for the powder mix.)

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I hope you will report your findings as I would like to try that if others have good results.

Dear All,

First of all, thanks for all the positive feedback, greatly appreciated :

I will get round to answering most questions over the next day or so if you have them, I have been on vacation for a week, hence why someone else posted the launch news on the APUG site...I did'nt forget you !.

I have been living with the development of our new FB range for nearly two year's, its been very exciting, I have to say they are easy to print with, just faster, and having seen the CLASSIC D.Max it knocks you out it really does....and I know it sounds daft but they really do look sharper ( and they are ) we look forward to all your feedback when you get a chance to use them.

As to FB COOLTONE, I personally have always preferred Cooler Images, with discernable grain as opposed to Warmer, Grain free images. But this is why it was so important to have a WARM / NUETRAL and COOL TONE family of products, using different devs you can now get 9 degrees of separation from WARM WARM to COOL COOL dependant on dev choices... yes our COOLTONE dev is currently unavailable, but other makes of chemistry are available ! and Edwal is great, Moersch is great Tetenal is great, so we are lucky to have so much choice.

Choice.....thats what its all really about, 20 years ago we had lots of FB papers to choose from to give us the 'look' we wanted, now not so many but with our new range and those from other makers we can still get an end result we can be happy with to suite our personal tastes...

The monochrome FB print from a film neg, is and will remain the ultimate expression of our craft after of course the shutter is opened and closed...

Finally, yes, CLASSIC is the same price as the product it replaces and COOLTONE is the same price as CLASSIC not WARMTONE, that price has also not changed but was always higher than MGIVFB.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon R Galley said:

Dear All,

. yes our COOLTONE dev is currently unavailable,
Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

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I wonder what we should read into the word "currently?" I'd prefer not to have to read anything into it, Simon, and get it wrong. Maybe there is nothing to read into it but could you clarify whether the resurrection of Ilford CT dev remains on a "still being reviewed" list or can I add " and will not be in the future" to the phrase "currently unavailable"

Thanks

pentaxuser

Even if they have decided not to bring it back now, I'd hate to see "and won't be in the future." They could change their minds.

From a marketing perspective and emotionally we would make another make today, sadly though our FD has no emotion in relation to photographic products, or any other products that do not produce an 'adequate' return on investment...and that is non-negotioable so 'no comment'

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :