NEW Agfa APX400

brianmquinn · Sep 23, 2013

http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/agfa-apx400-35mm-36-3513-p.asp

Any ideas?

Maybe this under the AGFA name?
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX Films/Premium/ADOX-PAN-400/PAN400.html

Shawn Dougherty · Sep 23, 2013

well that's interesting...

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 23, 2013

I contacted ADOX, and they told me with certainty that it is not an Agfa emulsion, and definitely not the same as the old APX 400.

Therefore the two linked films cannot be the same, because the PAN 400 is in fact an attempt to recreate the classic APX 400 emulsion.

Shawn Dougherty · Sep 23, 2013

Thanks, Thomas.

mauro35 · Sep 23, 2013

In macodirect.de website in Germany it's possible to see it is a different emulsion, not Agfa, and with different dev times.

http://www.macodirect.de/agfaphoto-p-2688.html

brianmquinn · Sep 23, 2013

The ADOX site does say the new ADOX PAN 400 Film will differ from the old AGFA 400 in the following ways.

ADOX improved the film in the following ways:

The graation was straightened which leads to an improoved copy range.
The old AgBrJ-Emulsions were replaced by more modern ones which have sensitomterically- and technological advantages. This leads especially to finer grain.
The new emulsions bring AP 400 to a true 400 ASA speed.
The film has been donated a modern AHU layer which increases sharpness and eliminates halation.

Aurelien · Sep 23, 2013

AGFA new APX 400 is certainly the Kentmere 400 film, which is sold now under a lot of different brands.

Ian Grant · Sep 23, 2013

AgfaPhoto is not a trust worthy brand name, just like the Maco and Rollei brand names for films etc. They have no allegiance to the old companies after all Rollei made cameras and other equipment like projectors, never film.

We could do without these fraudsters trading on others names.

Ian

pentaxuser · Sep 23, 2013

Aurelien said:
AGFA new APX 400 is certainly the Kentmere 400 film, which is sold now under a lot of different brands.

I thought that Simon Galley of Ilford which produces the Kentmere 400 film has said that Ilford does not produce the same film by a different name i.e. it will not re-badge its own films for another company who has asked Ilford to produce a film for it.

If I have understood what Simon Galley has said it means that Agfa 400 cannot be the same film as Kentmere 400

Maybe Simon Galley will clarify the position for us

pentaxuser

zsas · Sep 23, 2013

He said Ilford doesn't rebrand. He didn't say Harmon (the parent company) doesn't rebrand. Harmon has brands like Kentmere and Ilford....

zsas · Sep 23, 2013

Btw got some from BH....one'a these days I'll shoot it it says made in EU fwiw....could be Foma, Harmon....

Dr Croubie · Sep 23, 2013

Ian Grant said:
We could do without these fraudsters trading on others names.

I don't mind that, that's just marketing.
But we could do without multiple copies of different films with the same name in the Massive Dev Chart with the disclaimer "Data is taken from a previous version of this film. Starting point time may differ." cos, you know, that's useful.

TheToadMen · Sep 23, 2013

Here is the data sheet from Agfaphoto for the old version: http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/_upload/2008_36/Datasheet_F_PF_E4.pdf
Maybe it will help compare these films (to see what it is not)?

TheToadMen · Sep 23, 2013

I found this: http://forum.fotoimpex.de/index.php?showtopic=3045&p=16214#entry16214
It's in German, but you could use Google translate.

Mirko Boeddecker (from Adox-Fotoimpex) states clearly they didn't make this film:
"Über die Hintergründe der Produktion von Wettbewerbsmaterial kann ich keine Angaben machen. Wir stellen den Film nicht her."

Translated: "I can not comment on the reasons behind the production of competitive material. We do not produce the film."

And in (there was a url link here which no longer exists) about this film, he said: "No it is not. I think I stated earlier in this (or in another) thread that we do not manufacture the new AgfaPhoto APX. Mirko" (He was asked if it was the same film als the new Adox CHS II film)

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 23, 2013

Andy
Simon said that in respect of all products manufactured by Harman Technology. It was a company decision when they took over the previous management in 2005.
See when the Kentmere films were launched 4 years ago: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ian
If you think of them as like Jessops, than you won't go wrong. Like Jessops, they only put their label on existent products: the Agfaphoto Vista range is Fujicolor by another name. When you think that the Precisa CT is Fuji Provia 100, albeit an older generation and costs a lot less, than I am thankful that Lupus is still in the business.

Brian
Thank you! I've been waiting to see AG prices for the APX 400 as the only other British retailer that has it, Discount Films Direct, is asking £4.30 a roll. See: http://www.discountfilmsdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Agfa.html

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 23, 2013

Ricardo Miranda said:
Andy
Simon said that in respect of all products manufactured by Harman Technology. It was a company decision when they took over the previous management in 2005.
See when the Kentmere films were launched 4 years ago: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

True. But they also make emulsions for others, which can be branded as their customers see fit.

zsas · Sep 23, 2013

Thanks Ricardo. However, it doesn't mean you and I couldn't approach Harmon and pay them to coat Ricardo-Andy 400. No? I see no reason to believe Agfa (Lupus Imaging) went to Harmon, Foma, and others to get a bid on the APX 400 emulsion, which they own the rights to.

If I buy bulk jelly beans at the grocery store, I've no care in the world if they are made by Cadberry, Mars, Jelly Belly, etc....

Someone get some of this stuff shot and dev, let's see what we've got myself included, I've two rolls in the freezer waiting for the right light...prob gonna do one in HC110 and one in Diafine....

Will post when done...gott'a test the new goods

pentaxuser · Sep 23, 2013

zsas said:
He said Ilford doesn't rebrand. He didn't say Harmon (the parent company) doesn't rebrand. Harmon has brands like Kentmere and Ilford....

Yes we all say Ilford when we really mean, as I did, Harman. Since the new company arose out of the ashes of Ilford's demise in 2005 it is actually Harman. However Ilford and Harman in this context are interchangeable so I am unclear what the difference is between his saying that your quote above "Ilford doesn't re-brand. He didn't say Harmon ( the parent company) doesn't re-brand". I am equally unclear how Harman is now the parent company of Ilford

We use the word Ilford because it is a convenient way to refer to Harman but there is no separate Ilford company unless you know something I don't.

I think that Simon Galley had better gives us an unequivocal statement on whether Kentmere 400 is the same film as the new Agfa 400 to avoid the impression that he uses "legalise-type" language to make a statement which, it appears you think, doesn't lie but doesn't truthfully explain what Ilford's/Harman's position actually is.

Maybe I have misunderstood your statement but if I believed that Ilford, whoever they are, do one thing but the more shadowy parent company(Harman)can do another then I would have difficulty believing any statement that Simon Galley made

pentaxuser

zsas · Sep 23, 2013

There's nothing wrong with Harmon making film for a company. They just have an internal policy, that if they do, it's not their identical brew....it might be up to the customer to supply their recipe....nothing wrong w that in my book...happens all the time....think I saw some kind of documentary a few years ago, a manufacturer of candy corns also made generic brands but the recipes were not identical. They might use their own special "honey, corn syrup, etc"....how's this not possible for Harmon to do?

MartinP · Sep 23, 2013

Just one thing, Harmon make beer. Harman are the photographic people

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 23, 2013

MartinP said:
Just one thing, Harmon make beer.

And sometimes that helps to make better photos as well...

Ken

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 23, 2013

Andy
Thomas is absolutely right. Harman/Ilford do coatings under contract as you yourself suggested. Nice name for a film! lol
Just look at Rollei RPX which is coated at Mobberley. And they are different from any Ilford/Kentmere film, even if it is only by a few atoms here and there.

AgX · Sep 23, 2013

Two side nores:

TheToadMen said:
Here is the data sheet from Agfaphoto for the old version: http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/_upload/2008_36/Datasheet_F_PF_E4.pdf
Maybe it will help compare these films (to see what it is not)?

That Agfaphoto was no company yet but just a trade name Agfa had started to use scarcely in connection with their consumer activities.
With the sale of that department it became as well a trade name as a company name.

pentaxuser said:
...but if I believed that Ilford, whoever they are, do one thing but the more shadowy parent company(Harman)can do another...

There is no parent company. IlfordPhoto is just a trade name used for the silver-halide activities of Harman.

ath · Sep 24, 2013

zsas said:
Agfa (Lupus Imaging)

Agfa is a company and has nothing to do with Lupus Imaging.
Agfa Photo is a brand name which is used by Lupus Imaging.

Is it that hard?

AgX · Sep 24, 2013

AgfaPhoto is also a company. (AgfaPhoto Holding)

And concerning those AgfaPhoto branded films it is not clear whether AgfaPhoto is responsible for them and Lupus Imaging only serving as distributor.
Or whether this is a sole Lupus business and AgfaPhoto Holding only licencing that brand name.

I would not go as far as Ian and speak of fraudsters. But that all is a shady business.

(Actually that shady thing started already with the shady sale of that consumer business by Agfa in 2004...)

NEW Agfa APX400

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency