New $3200 Nikon film scanner?

farmersteve · Aug 24, 2017

I just saw the announcement for the new Nikon D850. One thing that stood out was this announcement:

Negative/Positive film scanning with in-camera conversion with optional ES-2 Film Digitizing Adapter and compatible Micro-NIKKOR lens for high-resolution scanning of negatives with the D850

https://fstoppers.com/gear/nikon-announces-d850-yes-its-amazing-camera-191972

So, if you buy this new Nikon adapter you are all set for film!
http://www.thephoblographer.com/201...-adapter-will-make-film-scanning-much-easier/

WTF? Nikon getting back into film scanning?

Richard Boutwell · Aug 24, 2017

If the 35 mm negative is used, and assuming it captures at 1:1, then the max resolution would be about 5500 SPI. That would make a 27" print at 300 PPI. That isn't spectacular but it isn't bad either. The question would have to be what is the quality of the lens and holder used. I would this it would only be limited to 35mm films or larger format film would have lower resolution unless it could be stitched from multiple sections. I wouldn't buy this camera for it's scanning capabilities. You'd be better served sending some negs off to be drum scanned for the price of this thing.

nmp · Aug 24, 2017

Richard Boutwell said:
If the 35 mm negative is used, and assuming it captures at 1:1, then the max resolution would be about 5500 SPI. That would make a 27" print at 300 PPI. That isn't spectacular but it isn't bad either. The question would have to be what is the quality of the lens and holder used. I would this it would only be limited to 35mm films or larger format film would have lower resolution unless it could be stitched from multiple sections. I wouldn't buy this camera for it's scanning capabilities. You'd be better served sending some negs off to be drum scanned for the price of this thing.

If you already have the camera and you have just moved to digital with lots of old 35's, this wouldn't be a bad accessory to have. With 8256 pixels on a 35.9 wide sensor, this leads to 5887 dpi equivalent of scanning. Not bad, at all. Convenience and speed will be advantageous too. But yes, I don't see someone buying the camera for the express purpose of copying 35 mm negatives or slides.

Alexey Betin · Aug 24, 2017

Richard Boutwell said:
If the 35 mm negative is used, and assuming it captures at 1:1, then the max resolution would be about 5500 SPI. That would make a 27" print at 300 PPI. That isn't spectacular but it isn't bad either. The question would have to be what is the quality of the lens and holder used. I would this it would only be limited to 35mm films or larger format film would have lower resolution unless it could be stitched from multiple sections. I wouldn't buy this camera for it's scanning capabilities. You'd be better served sending some negs off to be drum scanned for the price of this thing.

How much does it cost to scan 120 roll of 16 6x4.5 frames on a drum scanner and what is turn around time?

Richard Boutwell · Aug 24, 2017

Here is a link with prices, but they range from $50-$140 depending on scanning resolution. Turn around time also depends on resolution a certain degree, but 16 would be 2-3 days.

Dead Link Removed

Alexey Betin · Aug 24, 2017

Richard Boutwell said:
Here is a link with prices, but they range from $50-$140 depending on scanning resolution. Turn around time also depends on resolution a certain degree, but 16 would be 2-3 days.

Dead Link Removed

looking at $50 minimum per frame suddenly $3200 doesn't sound too bad

farmersteve · Aug 24, 2017

Original Size 2000 SPI 4000 SPI 8000 SPI 12000 SPI
35mm (24mmx36mm) - $35 $50 $80
X-Pan (24mmx64mm) - $45 $60 $90
6x4.5cm, 6x6cm, 6x7cm - $50 $80 $140

Holy crap! It would only take a 100 35mm at 2000 dpi to make this camera pay for itself! Hmm....

Richard Boutwell · Aug 24, 2017

farmersteve said:
Original Size 2000 SPI 4000 SPI 8000 SPI 12000 SPI
35mm (24mmx36mm) - $35 $50 $80
X-Pan (24mmx64mm) - $45 $60 $90
6x4.5cm, 6x6cm, 6x7cm - $50 $80 $140

Holy crap! I would only take a 100 35mm at 2000 dpi to make this camera pay for itself! Hmm....

I would love to see how a dslr compares to a good drumscan. I know most people who want to digitize with a dslr and lens attachment might not really care, but I don't think the two are really comparable. As for the 645 scans: can this new Nikon do anything other than 35mm films?

Alexey Betin · Aug 24, 2017

Richard Boutwell said:
I would love to see how a dslr compares to a good drumscan. I know most people who want to digitize with a dslr and lens attachment might not really care, but I don't think the two are really comparable. As for the 645 scans: can this new Nikon do anything other than 35mm films?

DSLR scans of silver b&w film are really good. I've compared them to optical darkroom prints. Color is a whole other story.

farmersteve · Aug 24, 2017

Richard Boutwell said:
I would love to see how a dslr compares to a good drumscan. I know most people who want to digitize with a dslr and lens attachment might not really care, but I don't think the two are really comparable. As for the 645 scans: can this new Nikon do anything other than 35mm films?

This guys thinks that using a DSLR can rival a drum scan https://petapixel.com/2012/12/23/wh...our-film-using-a-camera-instead-of-a-scanner/

Richard Boutwell · Aug 24, 2017

farmersteve said:
This guys thinks that using a DSLR can rival a drum scan https://petapixel.com/2012/12/23/wh...our-film-using-a-camera-instead-of-a-scanner/

Those scans from the 1045 look like they were defocused to hide the grain. Some people do that, and some people have even asked me to do that when scanning their films (I argue otherwise). They also don't say what resolution that was scanned with. The 1045 will go to 8000spi, and should be sharper than what is shown. BTW, the 1045 was my first scanner before moving up and I know it and what it can do pretty well. The author seems to have gotten a dud from whatever "professional" lab was used. We could probably argue this all day long, and maybe the quality of digitizing films with a dslr might catch up with a well made drum scan—it's no doubt faster—but until then I'll keep pushing drum scans for people who want it and know the difference.

nmp · Aug 24, 2017

farmersteve said:
Original Size 2000 SPI 4000 SPI 8000 SPI 12000 SPI
35mm (24mmx36mm) - $35 $50 $80
X-Pan (24mmx64mm) - $45 $60 $90
6x4.5cm, 6x6cm, 6x7cm - $50 $80 $140

Holy crap! It would only take a 100 35mm at 2000 dpi to make this camera pay for itself! Hmm....

Hopefully you can get another 100 great images from the camera itself that you don't need to drumscan.

By the way, don't forget the Micro-Nikkor lens that would cost another $1000 or so.. And $150 for the attachment.

nbagno · Aug 24, 2017

Scanning is not just about resolution. ICE can be beneficial, I use it especially when scanning portraits. A drum scanner has a benefit of the oil moving dust and filling in scratches and other imperfections. None of this is available with a dslr scan.

mjork · Aug 25, 2017

nbagno said:
Scanning is not just about resolution. ICE can be beneficial, I use it especially when scanning portraits. A drum scanner has a benefit of the oil moving dust and filling in scratches and other imperfections. None of this is available with a dslr scan.

I find that DSLR scanning really reduces dust problems to the point that it's a non-issue. Before digitally photographing the film, I simply give it a few blows with a rocket blower and then I have virtually no dust spots to clean up.
That compares very favorably with an Epson flatbed scan which results in a huge amount of dust spots (even when I try really hard to avoid it). ICE is really needed there.

Cholentpot · Aug 25, 2017

mjork said:
I find that DSLR scanning really reduces dust problems to the point that it's a non-issue. Before digitally photographing the film, I simply give it a few blows with a rocket blower and then I have virtually no dust spots to clean up.
That compares very favorably with an Epson flatbed scan which results in a huge amount of dust spots (even when I try really hard to avoid it). ICE is really needed there.

I keep my negatives spotless as possible. Dust is not really a problem when I DSLR scan.

The rig they are putting out with the camera looks promising though. If I can get hooked up to a third party clone it might hold promise. As of now the longest part of my workflow is cropping the negatives because each one gets scanned slightly different. If I had some sort of set rail system where each piece is scanned exactly the same I would save about 1/4th of the time it takes.

nmp · Aug 25, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I keep my negatives spotless as possible. Dust is not really a problem when I DSLR scan.

The rig they are putting out with the camera looks promising though. If I can get hooked up to a third party clone it might hold promise. As of now the longest part of my workflow is cropping the negatives because each one gets scanned slightly different. If I had some sort of set rail system where each piece is scanned exactly the same I would save about 1/4th of the time it takes.

Here is the whole kit...

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/24/...itizing-adapter-set-scan-film-at-45-7mp.aspx/

I believe it will work with other Nikon cameras, not sure with other makes.

mjork · Aug 25, 2017

Cholentpot said:
The rig they are putting out with the camera looks promising though. If I can get hooked up to a third party clone it might hold promise. As of now the longest part of my workflow is cropping the negatives because each one gets scanned slightly different. If I had some sort of set rail system where each piece is scanned exactly the same I would save about 1/4th of the time it takes.

I have built my own rig: two cheap macro rails (from some Chinese manufacturer on Amazon) are mounted on a board on top of and orthogonal to each other. The camera clamps onto that and thus can be moved left to right and forward/backward (for focusing). The film strip goes into a Beseler Negatrans carrier which is also mounted on the same board at an appropriate distance to the camera. That way I can easily move through all 6 frames in a 35mm film strip just by turning a knob on the Negatrans.
With this setup all images that I capture can be cropped at once in Lightroom, they all need exactly the same crop.

RattyMouse · Aug 25, 2017

A Plustek OpticFilm 120 is less than $2000 and is an amazing scanner. I would not buy this Nikon for nearly one third more in cost just to scan negatives.

Cholentpot · Aug 25, 2017

mjork said:
I have built my own rig: two cheap macro rails (from some Chinese manufacturer on Amazon) are mounted on a board on top of and orthogonal to each other. The camera clamps onto that and thus can be moved left to right and forward/backward (for focusing). The film strip goes into a Beseler Negatrans carrier which is also mounted on the same board at an appropriate distance to the camera. That way I can easily move through all 6 frames in a 35mm film strip just by turning a knob on the Negatrans.
With this setup all images that I capture can be cropped at once in Lightroom, they all need exactly the same crop.

Can you post picture and link to these things? My setup is a little more basic.

The negative carrier is free, I have to slide it into frame while looking into live view. Some sort of rail system would be a game changer.

mjork · Aug 26, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Can you post picture and link to these things? My setup is a little more basic.

Here it is:

I'm using parts of a Beseler 45 enlarger. The color head is my light source and the slide carrier and Negatrans carrier hold mounted slides or strips of negatives. Just google for "Beseler Negatrans" and you find plenty of information. It comes in different versions. You feed in the strip of negatives from the side and use the little knob to go from one frame to the next.

The wooden base in the middle can accept either film carrier. I got a bit lazy and didn't design in a mechanism to move either the camera or the film holder up and down. But that hasn't really been a problem yet.
With the upper macro rail I move the camera left/right to adjust to the position of the film carrier. And with the lower macro rail I'm focusing.

Cholentpot · Aug 26, 2017

mjork said:
Here it is:

View attachment 185667

I'm using parts of a Beseler 45 enlarger. The color head is my light source and the slide carrier and Negatrans carrier hold mounted slides or strips of negatives. Just google for "Beseler Negatrans" and you find plenty of information. It comes in different versions. You feed in the strip of negatives from the side and use the little knob to go from one frame to the next.

The wooden base in the middle can accept either film carrier. I got a bit lazy and didn't design in a mechanism to move either the camera or the film holder up and down. But that hasn't really been a problem yet.
With the upper macro rail I move the camera left/right to adjust to the position of the film carrier. And with the lower macro rail I'm focusing.

So in looking at my setup all I need is a Beseler Negatrans clamped down on my lightpad?

Well, I'll help you out too. I use these two actions to greatly speed up my scanning http://www.mfphotography.ca/michael...-guide-to-scanning-film-with-a-digital-camera and https://www.iamthejeff.com/post/32/the-best-way-to-color-correct-c-41-negative-film-scans. The second one I modified for B&W but you'll need to do that yourself. These both save me hours. With clean negs I can get everything scanned and JPEGd in about an hour for a roll of 36. I tether into LR as RAW export to PS, dust and scratches, then send back to LR as a TIFF for levels and finishing touches JPEG and done.

It's worked great and is really not that much work. C-41 and B&W are a breeze. For 120 6x6 I shoot the neg twice and export as a panorama to PS.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 26, 2017

farmersteve said:
I just saw the announcement for the new Nikon D850. One thing that stood out was this announcement:

Negative/Positive film scanning with in-camera conversion with optional ES-2 Film Digitizing Adapter and compatible Micro-NIKKOR lens for high-resolution scanning of negatives with the D850

https://fstoppers.com/gear/nikon-announces-d850-yes-its-amazing-camera-191972

So, if you buy this new Nikon adapter you are all set for film!
http://www.thephoblographer.com/201...-adapter-will-make-film-scanning-much-easier/

WTF? Nikon getting back into film scanning?

I saw that article too (in PetaPixel); it is probably going to find its niche in museums who are digitizing old 35mm works. It would be very strange to find a hobbyist spending AUD$6,000 on the D850, and another heap on a 35mm slide scan attachment to slap on the front of another thing he needs to splash out on -- a Micro Nikkor... . This stuff is now priced so astronomically as to make many people wonder what Nikon is trying to do — price itself out of the market? Especially since the D850 is the thing that takes the photograph; the guy holding it is effectively nothing more than an observer and slave to a huge amount of automated technology.

mjork · Aug 28, 2017

Cholentpot said:
So in looking at my setup all I need is a Beseler Negatrans clamped down on my lightpad?

Yes, that should do it. With some effort you could also build some contraption that re-uses your film holder: if you can slide that left - right and have some mask (revealing the current frame) at a fixed position in front of it, then the end effect would be pretty similar.

mjork · Aug 28, 2017

Cholentpot said:
Well, I'll help you out too. I use these two actions to greatly speed up my scanning http://www.mfphotography.ca/michael...-guide-to-scanning-film-with-a-digital-camera and https://www.iamthejeff.com/post/32/the-best-way-to-color-correct-c-41-negative-film-scans. The second one I modified for B&W but you'll need to do that yourself. These both save me hours. With clean negs I can get everything scanned and JPEGd in about an hour for a roll of 36. I tether into LR as RAW export to PS, dust and scratches, then send back to LR as a TIFF for levels and finishing touches JPEG and done.

It's worked great and is really not that much work. C-41 and B&W are a breeze. For 120 6x6 I shoot the neg twice and export as a panorama to PS.

I am only using my DSLR setup for B&W negatives and color slides so far. I found the color negative conversion too labor intensive (much easier to use my Epson scanner and let Silverfast handle that). Will take a look at these links.

Sounds like Nikon is providing the negative conversion in camera. That's a very nice value-add if it works well.

Bob Carnie · Aug 28, 2017

I am interested in Phase Back Repro system, right now its quite pricy but am looking into the complete system from lighting, capture sensor, capture one to Photoshop .

I am not yet convinced that a camera system can outperform a high end scanner system that I am used to working with.. But over the next year will be able to check negative scans done from a digital capture system and that of my scanners.

New $3200 Nikon film scanner?

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