"New" 2019 D76 vs Traditional D76?

Neil Poulsen · May 3, 2020

I've noticed where there is a new "2019" D76 available. How is this "new" developer different than the previous, pre 2019, D76 developer? I hope it's not different in activity?

I did all my calibrations last year using the traditional D76 (pre-2019); I would hate to have to do them again. Is someone familiar with these changes?

Vaughn · May 3, 2020

Well, if it is like the old and new Dektols, it might not look the same but be the same. The new Dektol is brownish when fresh -- some chemical that does not affect the properties of the developer. Perhaps there is a very quick and easy test to do to see if the new matches the old. Good Luck!

drpsilver · May 3, 2020

03 May 2020

This would be a good question for Ron. I miss is expertise very much. I have some "pre-2019" D76, but recently I have been formulating my own from scratch. I have seen very little difference between these two developers, except for keeping properties.

Regards,
Darwin

Lachlan Young · May 3, 2020

It should be functionally identical if manufactured correctly. More often than not, I've tended to find that people's process controls/ ability to mix chemicals consistently tend to be significantly worse than the effect of any batch variation.

NB23 · May 4, 2020

No idea.
Not trusting Kodak’s ways for the past 10 years now, when they announced the “new D76” along with the “new hc-110”, I purchased all the “old D76” I could find.

Got about 15 bags... and 3 bottles of the syrup HC-110.

I cannot help you but I’m certainly curious to know the real answer...

MattKing · May 4, 2020

Kodak Alaris changed a lot of things when Tetenal (its primary? manufacturer) had its near-death experience.
Packaging has changed, but unlike some of the chemicals, the new D-76 is still manufactured in Germany, so there is a decent chance Tetenal still makes it.
Almost all the Black and White chemicals have new SKU numbers and new, more favorable minimum order requirements - here is the 2019 Kodak Alaris announcement of those changes: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sit..._Chemical_CATALOG_ITEM_NUMBER_UPDATE_2019.pdf

pentaxuser · May 4, 2020

I am not a fan of Kodak's recent pricing and OK I realise this will come as a great surprise to all of you but it would seem incredible to me if there was a change that affected its developing properties and Kodak chose to say nothing and issue no new instructions.

That's a recipe for driving away even diehard customers, isn't it?. Kodak may have made mistakes and may do so in the future but I do not believe it to be stupid enough or dishonest enough not to inform its customers of changes that matter and might cause them to make develop their films badly

pentaxuser

NB23 · May 4, 2020

T

pentaxuser said:
I am not a fan of Kodak's recent pricing and OK I realise this will come as a great surprise to all of you but it would seem incredible to me if there was a change that affected its developing properties and Kodak chose to say nothing and issue no new instructions.

That's a recipe for driving away even diehard customers, isn't it?. Kodak may have made mistakes and may do so in the future but I do not believe it to be stupid enough or dishonest enough not to inform its customers of changes that matter and might cause them to make develop their films badly

pentaxuser

... And yet they insist on publishing and MANTAINING erroneous times for tri-x in dilution B, despite people telling them.

John Bragg · May 4, 2020

NB23 said:
T

... And yet they insist on publishing and MANTAINING erroneous times for tri-x in dilution B, despite people telling them.

Einstein summed it up well.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

138S · May 4, 2020

Vaughn said:
The new Dektol is brownish when fresh -- some chemical that does not affect the properties of the developer.

"Recent batches of DEKTOL with date codes of August 2019 or later have been coming out darker than normal when mixed.
This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance.
We are working with our manufacturer to quickly bring the color back to its normal neutral appearance." (https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info)

It looks that the "tea color" was a surprise for KA , not by design, KA footprint, harrypotters at command I guess. Those things do not usually happen to EK.

MattKing · May 4, 2020

138S said:
Those things do not usually happen to EK.

EK hasn't made and sold black and chemicals for a long time - from before the bankruptcy.

138S · May 4, 2020

MattKing said:
EK hasn't made and sold black and chemicals for a long time - from before the bankruptcy.

Yes, I know... I mean such a kind of thing: selling that brown dektol anyway.

To me it's a bit LOL. Why not returning the brown impurity ingredient before mixing? Had they realized the extrange color after mixing a 5 Tm batch? After packaging? Did a customer tell them? How those packages reached marked?

Sadly it was anodine brown and not green with pinky polka dots

I was surpised with the brown color of the dektol I mixed, first I was thinking that the soup was bad, but development was right. Not serious that those packages could reach market, because a brown dektol usually suggests chem is destroyed leading customers to confusion. In a normal situation you don't sell a milk batch if it is green, even if the green impurity is food grade.

EK made 120 film with a defective backing paper in 2016, but they replaced the products, issued the involved emulsion codes and most important, they didn't blame the paper manufacturer. This is a more serious behaviour.

Ian Grant · May 4, 2020

Traditional D76 as per the published formula changed some years ago, probably the main reason was changes in the way many people use it. At one time it was always used full strength and often replenished however there was a growing tendency to use it one shot t 1+1 and 1+3, Kodak increased the buffering to a point somewhere between D76 and D76d (which they once called Buffered Borax Fine Grain Developer in pre-WWII publications). Increasing the buffering helps with consistency when using dilution particularly at 1+3.

Ian

Vaughn · May 4, 2020

138S said:
This is a more serious behaviour.

Why -- does the color matter? No.

MattKing · May 4, 2020

And the likelihood that it was visibly brown when it left the factory is zero.

138S · May 4, 2020

Vaughn said:
Why -- does the color matter? No.

Well, it matters because customer does not know if the product is defective or not, thus generating a deep confusion, and this is inconvenient because he has to check/search what happens. Color is not nice: it looks destroyed developer so first impression you get is that this developer is not to work, leading to nasty uncertainties.

This is not the way a reputed brand should deliver their products, kodak is not a "low tech" company like Photographer's Formulary.

Once the customer has learned that there is no problem (which I would like to know for sure) then there is no problem, me I've bought more brown dektol. But anyway I've got a bad impression from the brand.

MattKing said:
And the likelihood that it was visibly brown when it left the factory is zero.

Matt, when you open the package powder is perfectly white, it is when you mix it that the soup is quite brown. This comes from a poor QC. Probably they had not tested developer before mixing the full batch, or perhaps the new manufacturer was not aware that customers were expecting a clear soup, who knows...

Vaughn · May 4, 2020

If you wish it to matter to you, then it does. I use Ilford Universal PQ developer for my negs instead of Dektol, so if I depended on Dektol, the brown would have worried me, also. I ordered all Kodak chemicals for the basic processes while running a university darkroom for 20+ years. Always dependable...now a different (literally) company, making chemicals in different places.

mohmad khatab · May 4, 2020

A Russian man told me, I do not remember his name, and I do not remember whether he was alive or dead ..
He told me that the new formula contained some ammonium chloride.

Lachlan Young · May 4, 2020

@mohmad khatab not as far as is known - your source was probably thinking about old work done by Ilford and Kodak on ultra fine grain developers. The answers to preventing dichroic fog with very fine grain were a combination of Sodium Chloride (highly effective grain solvent) and Chlororesorcinol (anti dichroic fog). The latter and similar components are often incorporated in modern emulsions to prevent dichroic fog formation.

mohmad khatab · May 5, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
@mohmad khatab not as far as is known - your source was probably thinking about old work done by Ilford and Kodak on ultra fine grain developers. The answers to preventing dichroic fog with very fine grain were a combination of Sodium Chloride (highly effective grain solvent) and Chlororesorcinol (anti dichroic fog). The latter and similar components are often incorporated in modern emulsions to prevent dichroic fog formation.

Generally
I am not a fan of formula (D76) at all ,, I can say that I am one of the enemies of this formula and consider it a formula free of human feelings and sometimes I call it the automatic formula ,, I love the formula Agfa 14 or Ilford ID3
The Russian guy gave me that formula and wrote it in my notebook called it
(Russian D76)
metol .............................2g
HQ.................................5g
sod. sulfite.....................35g
Borax..............................8g
pot. bromide...................0.5g
Ammonium chloride....45g

Lachlan Young · May 6, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
Generally
I am not a fan of formula (D76) at all ,, I can say that I am one of the enemies of this formula and consider it a formula free of human feelings and sometimes I call it the automatic formula ,, I love the formula Agfa 14 or Ilford ID3
The Russian guy gave me that formula and wrote it in my notebook called it
(Russian D76)
metol .............................2g
HQ.................................5g
sod. sulfite.....................35g
Borax..............................8g
pot. bromide...................0.5g
Ammonium chloride....45g

If you read that link I gave earlier, you'll find that you were essentially given a modified form of an Ilford suggestion (your informant seems to have modified the amount of sodium sulfite for reasons that make no sense when you are loading up the developer with silver solvent anyway) to produce potentially finer grain with 1950's emulsions. Note Ron's comments on the effect of that much NH4Cl on a developer. If you cannot get superb results out of D-76, it's not the formula that's the problem.

mohmad khatab · May 6, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
If you read that link I gave earlier, you'll find that you were essentially given a modified form of an Ilford suggestion (your informant seems to have modified the amount of sodium sulfite for reasons that make no sense when you are loading up the developer with silver solvent anyway) to produce potentially finer grain with 1950's emulsions. Note Ron's comments on the effect of that much NH4Cl on a developer. If you cannot get superb results out of D-76, it's not the formula that's the problem.

Each year and you are fine ,,
I wish you good health and lasting happiness ..
In fact, I am very tired. Sanitary has become a very long time and I feel a lot of boredom and frustration.
I don’t know what to do ,,?
I am looking to buy an expired films (or similar) package or any other measurements in order to meet the increasing demands of Egyptian photography enthusiasts and I don’t know what to do, n
I do not find any large quantities at an encouraging price, the whole world is full of greedy merchants, kind people have become scarce.
- I am very, very tired and very bored.
I'm so sad ....

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 7, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
I do not find any large quantities at an encouraging price
...
I'm so sad ....

Dear Mohmad,

Film price won't come down unless a very unlikely miracle happens. In India till last year I was able to buy 100 feet bulk roll of Orwo UN54 ISO 100 B&W film for about $35. This used to be the cheapest B&W film available in India. Earlier this year its price went up to $70! Indian distributor of Orwo films told me that his hands are tied as Filmotec will not sell the film for a lower price. Even cheap C41 film which was available for $1.5 per roll is now at least $4. I won't be surprised if the price goes up further in the coming days due to covid-19 crisis. There's not much anyone can do about the soaring film prices.

BTW some people have had success cutting a photo paper into the size of 120 film and rolling it to be used in medium format cameras. See https://www.facebook.com/groups/AlternativePhotographicProcesses/permalink/10157268944832749/

At ISO 20 or lower it's not ideal for hand-held photography, but is still a cheap way to produce paper negatives (which can be scanned or contact printed) and paper positives (by reversal processing). Better than having no film any day. Reach out to James R Kyle on Facebook for more details.

mohmad khatab · May 7, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Dear Mohmad,

Film price won't come down unless a very unlikely miracle happens. In India till last year I was able to buy 100 feet bulk roll of Orwo UN54 ISO 100 B&W film for about $35. This used to be the cheapest B&W film available in India. Earlier this year its price went up to $70! Indian distributor of Orwo films told me that his hands are tied as Filmotec will not sell the film for a lower price. Even cheap C41 film which was available for $1.5 per roll is now at least $4. I won't be surprised if the price goes up further in the coming days due to covid-19 crisis. There's not much anyone can do about the soaring film prices.

BTW some people have had success cutting a photo paper into the size of 120 film and rolling it to be used in medium format cameras. See https://www.facebook.com/groups/AlternativePhotographicProcesses/permalink/10157268944832749/

At ISO 20 or lower it's not ideal for hand-held photography, but is still a cheap way to produce paper negatives (which can be scanned or contact printed) and paper positives (by reversal processing). Better than having no film any day. Reach out to James R Kyle on Facebook for more details.

Brother ,, thank you.
Tell me about how to develop paper after filming it,
What kind of developer is recommended to use it?
God bless you

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 7, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
Brother ,, thank you.
Tell me about how to develop paper after filming it,
What kind of developer is recommended to use it?
God bless you

For developing paper negatives, you can use a sufficiently diluted paper developer including your Agfa Neutol WA. There are plenty of other possibilities - caffenol for example. On this forum and on largeformatphotography forum there is a lot of useful information on developing paper negatives. Just search and read.

"New" 2019 D76 vs Traditional D76?

Neil Poulsen

Vaughn

drpsilver

Lachlan Young

NB23

MattKing

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pentaxuser

NB23

John Bragg

138S

MattKing

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138S

Ian Grant

Vaughn

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138S

Vaughn

mohmad khatab

Lachlan Young

mohmad khatab

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mohmad khatab

Raghu Kuvempunagar

mohmad khatab

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"New" 2019 D76 vs Traditional D76?

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