Neutol WA and RC-papers

Usagi · Oct 9, 2007

Hi

Some RC papers are easy to tone (for example, kentmere fine lustre) and some does not change tone at all, at least in seleno-sulphid. Such are for eg. Ilford pearl.

But how is Neutol WA. Which papers responds well it's warm tone and which does not?
I am looking pearl or glossy surface papers.

Thanks.

Videbaek · Oct 10, 2007

Tere Jukka. I've used Neutol (neutral) with Ilford FB Multigrade warmtone papers (a nice selection is available at Fotoyks on Fredrikinkatu, HKI) and they tone very nicely in selenium. Got to watch the selenium concentration, though. Too strong or warm and a note of plum/aubergine comes in which a lot of people don't like. I think 1:50 should be safe to stay in the deep-brown/black range. For Ilford's RC pearl or glossy papers... I don't know. I suspect they won't tone as strongly as the warmtone fibre.

Ian Grant · Oct 10, 2007

Jukka, you need to check out the websites for each paper manufacturer, or look in a catalogue (online) from a good supplier like Fotoimpex, Silverprint etc.

Essentilally Bromide papers are neutral in tone, and Bromo-chloride and Chloro-bromide warmtone. Bromide papers don't really change tone if you use warmtone developer, or selenium toning, while warmtone papers respond well to different developers to produce a far wider rane of tones.

You could look at Ilfords Wam tone papers, Adox (Forte) Polywarmtone, Kentmere's Warmtone, Foma etc. THese are nearly all avaialble in RC or Fibre base.

Try getting hold of B&W Magazine (UK) there are plenty of articles about B&W printing, toning etc using a wide range of papers.

Ian

Ian Grant · Oct 10, 2007

Svend, Ilford make a Warm tone RC paper. It will work well in Neutol WA.

Ian

mikeg · Oct 10, 2007

Ian Grant said:
Svend, Ilford make a Warm tone RC paper.

It tones very well in selenium. If you leave it in too long you'll get the typical plum/aubergine colours.

Mike

jgjbowen · Oct 10, 2007

Not to change the subject, but is Neutol WA still available?

Ian Grant · Oct 10, 2007

jgjbowen said:
Not to change the subject, but is Neutol WA still available?

Yes, it's made by A&O who took over the Agfa chemistry manufacture. Try Freestyle, in the UK Silverprint stock it.

Ian

Bob F. · Oct 10, 2007

MGIV-WT RC and Forte Polywarmtone RC (there still seems to be quite a lot of it around) both work very well in Neutol WA. I fully expect Kentmere Warm will too as the fibre version certainly does but I've not tried the Kentmere RC version.

I find that sepia toning RC tends to result in a lighter print than when using the fibre versions but pulling early from the bleach can resolve that problem if it occurs.

Enjoy! Bob.

Usagi · Oct 10, 2007

Thanks

I'll do some tests with warmtone papers.

jgjbowen · Oct 11, 2007

Ian Grant said:
Yes, it's made by A&O who took over the Agfa chemistry manufacture. Try Freestyle, in the UK Silverprint stock it.

Ian

Thanks Ian.

sterioma · Jan 4, 2008

Has anybody any experience on how Neutol WA behaves with neutral tone papers (e.g. Ilford Multigrade RC MGIV)?

I am just a beginner, trying to limit my films, film developers, papers and paper developers combinations to a bare a minimum. Specifically, I would like to use only a single type of paper in various sizes (that is Ilford MGIV RC pearl for now), and maybe use a neutral and a warm tone developer (Neutol WA is readily available locally while ilford is not) when I want to give a warmer look.

Ian Grant · Jan 4, 2008

Stefano, neutral tone papers aren't really affected by warm tone developers and its unlikely you'd see any difference. A warm tone paper can be developed to give warm or cold tones but the reverse isn't possible.

You would be better to standardise on a warm-tone paper.

Ian

Sal Santamaura · Jan 5, 2008

sterioma said:
Has anybody any experience on how Neutol WA behaves with...MGIV RC?...

I have used this combination and it does produce a moderately warm tone.

My current favorite combination is Galerie in Neutol WA. This pairing results in an image tone that, while not obviously warm unless compared side-by-side to a dead-neutral print, does contain a hint of warmth. It's just enough to completely avoid the green one gets with Dektol-like developers and thereby precludes the need for toning.

I know you're trying to limit yourself to MGIV RC, but encourage you to try Galerie when moving on to fiber-based papers.

sterioma · Jan 5, 2008

Ian, Sal, thank you!

Sal Santamaura said:
I know you're trying to limit yourself to MGIV RC, but encourage you to try Galerie when moving on to fiber-based papers.

I understand Galerie is a graded paper. If I remember correctly from The Print it was one of Ansel Adams favorites.
I guess it'll be a while before I'll be able to
a) process fibre based prints (it looks it takes substantially more time, and money for that matter, that is some kind of print washer, maybe a press, etc...)
b) be able to have my exposure/development process under control to be able to use graded papers.

But the travel is going to be fun

Sal Santamaura · Jan 5, 2008

sterioma said:
...thank you!...it looks it takes substantially more time, and money for that matter, that is some kind of print washer, maybe a press, etc...be able to have my exposure/development process under control to be able to use graded papers...

You're welcome!

When ready to try Galerie, don't let lack of a print washer or press hold you back. You can substitute patience for both. A small number of prints can be washed in trays, either with a tray siphon or simply by changing water manually. Be aware that there will be about 10% dry-down of the print values and, due to emulsion swelling when wet, things will look blurry. Sharpness will return when dry.

To flatten the dry prints, simply place them under a stack of books. The longer they stay there the flatter they'll be. Depending on how low humidity was when they were air-dried, anywhere from a couple of days to a few weeks will work just as well as a press.

It's definitely good to have one's exposure/development process under control. However, Galerie is available in grades 2 and 3, so there's some flexibility available during printing. Targeting one's negatives to a lower than "N" contrast works well in this situation, especially with 35mm or 120 film. I'm currently using Delta 100 sheets, developed in Perceptol 1:3 to a contrast index of 0.51 for full-sun scenes, then printed on grade 2 Galerie in 1:7 Neutol WA. These are the the most satifsying prints I've made in nearly 40 years of darkroom dabbling.

Enjoy your journey.

Neutol WA and RC-papers

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