Neopan 400 120 drying problem.

[pmu]

Hello,

sorry if I don't use correct terms, but I hope you get the point.

I have a big problem with Neopan 120 and drying marks. Normally, if I have drying marks, I don't mind because I can later remove them by breathing into the surface of the film and using microfibre cloth. This removes the marks always, except with Neopan 400 in 120 size. It seems that the base of the film is different and the combination of giving moisture by breathing into the film and using microfibre cloth just ruines the film. The cloth just sticks to the surface and that's it. Ruined.

I have tried using photo flo, cleaned water (water that is used in car batteries...I think), wiping the film, not wiping the film, drying horizontally / vertically...just about every trick I know...and still, drying marks every time.

This problem only occurs with middle format Neopan films. With 35mm neopan, no problem (microfibre works OK).

All advices greatly appreciated.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

I had a pretty much the same exact problems years ago, same film and size, it was solved by making sure the photo-flo was well mixed before putting the film into it, and then hang drying instead of a tube style dryer. I made sure that after I put the photo-flo in the final rinse water I gave it a solid stir with a very clean straw, then waiting 10 or so seconds before dropping the film in.

 

[hspluta]

I just experianced this over the weekend. I ended up purchasing two fine sponges that ladies use for makeup. After I run the through the PhotoFlo I hang them, wet the sponges with the PhotoFlo and water mix, and then wipe the film down, a sponge on each side pulling from top to bottom. This worked for me. I am also mixing my PhotoFlo at 2ml per 1500ml of water.

Regards, Harry

 

[brian steinberger]

Hi, I use Neopan 400 almost exclusively in 120. I never have drying mark problems. I dip in the distilled water with photo flo mixed in after the wash, then hang to dry.

 

[nickandre]

Step one: fill tank with distilled water and dump
Step two: fill tank with distilled water and dump.
Step three: hang to dry.

If that doesn't work (which it will, because there's nothing in the water to dry on the film) you can add slight amounts of photo flo to distilled water.

 

[pmu]

Yeah, distilled water (from new, unopened bottle) and a drop of photo flow: again long soft drying marks. Not as much as before, but still too much.

 

[ruilourosa]

hello,

few things can help:
use destilled water
dilute properly your wetting agent, if in doubt use less quantity
add a bit of isopropilic alcool to your diluted wetting agent solution, this improves the eveness of the water over the film
never use blown air, or a heated sistem, just hang and leave to dry

to wipe your film after dries instead of breathing use a drop of isopropilic alcool

this should do

 

[garysamson]

Make sure you leave the film in the Photo Flo / distilled water solution for at least 30 seconds. This solution is only good for about 24 hours.

 

[ruilourosa]

that´s not true i usually have the solution made for months (agepon 1+200 + 5% isopropilic alcool in destilled water) and never had a problem, also, i do the same way with c-41 and e-6 stabilizer (containing either formaldehyde or glutaraldehyde) and no problem

 

[kapro]

Final rinse in distilled water+isopropyl alcohol+ wetting agent usually works well...

 

[BetterSense]

you might want to try hanging your film diagonally so the water doesn't have to run as far down to be away from the image area.

 

[nickandre]

Make sure you're using real distilled water. Drying marks come from dissolved solids which shouldn't be in distilled water. I get nothing when I use it plain. De-ionized water as is commonly used in batteries may contain dissolved solids.

 

[Cecil]

Does it matter any more? Neopan 400 120 is gone.

 

[Usagi]

Does it matter any more? Neopan 400 120 is gone.

Is it really gone, or was it only Neopan Presto 400, which was Neopan 400 labelled for japanese market?

 

[clayne]

Does it matter any more? Neopan 400 120 is gone.

Perhaps for the JDM. BTW: Anything to contribute to this thread?

To the OP, are you leaving them to dry naturally or are you using cycled air or heat of any sort? What dilution of photo-flo? 1:400 is more than enough.

I leave mine in photoflo+distilled water 1:400 for about 20s, hang, then use a dropper to re-douse the surface of the film evenly, and let dry naturally in a drying cabinet with no forced air or heat. Never any drying marks on 100s of rolls of anything.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Are your marks on the emulsion side or film base. I solved my issues with other films on the film base side by gently wiping to almost dry with kitchen towel. Now they negs are immaculate, but for some reason I never had issues on the emulsion side.

 

[Paul van Bavel]

How long do you wash your film?

 

[pmu]

I wash my films either with running water for about 30min or I use modified Ilford washing method (with more steps and also soaking the film in water few minutes between steps). The drying marks are almost always in base side of film, but now I realized that couple of frames had also on the emulsion side.

I have tried drying it in drying cabin (with different heat levels), drying in room temperature (bathroom), hanging the film diagonally, with various different photo flo dilutions etc. and always there are some small marks. There has to be something in that ionized car battery battery water that leaves residue on to the film.

So far, the best and almost perfect result has been the latest test when I used ionized water with a drop of photo flo and squeege. I squeezed the base side of film and the result is perfect in those areas where I was able to take the water away. Still, there were couple of frames that stayed wet and those frames have drying marks. Super annoying problem.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

pmu,

Is your room very warm? Try hanging the film in a cool place. Slower drying allows the water to run off. When I dry film in the Afghan summer I can get similar problems come to think of it as the water just dries too fast.

Trust me with the kitchen roll. You should be able to get the base darned near to dry and there will not be a single mark on it. I have done hundreds of rolls this way and every single one has been perfect and I used to have terrible problems on the films base side that drove me nuts... and I dont even use distilled water. Just fold over the kitchen roll (which normalls is close to lint free and any tiny fibres come off anyway as they cannot stick to the plastic base side. I just leave the emulsion side well alone and as long as drying is not too rapid, I get no marks.

 

[pmu]

pmu,

Is your room very warm? Try hanging the film in a cool place. Slower drying allows the water to run off. When I dry film in the Afghan summer I can get similar problems come to think of it as the water just dries too fast.

Trust me with the kitchen roll. You should be able to get the base darned near to dry and there will not be a single mark on it. I have done hundreds of rolls this way and every single one has been perfect and I used to have terrible problems on the films base side that drove me nuts... and I dont even use distilled water. Just fold over the kitchen roll (which normalls is close to lint free and any tiny fibres come off anyway as they cannot stick to the plastic base side. I just leave the emulsion side well alone and as long as drying is not too rapid, I get no marks.

My bathroom is "normal" temperature, I think it's 21 degrees Celsius.

But yes, I will try this your method with kitchen roll (I need to buy clean ones tomorrow)!

 

[pmu]

Thanks for all your advices, but after couple of days of heavy duty testing, I am going to start using squeege. I tried to get some scratches into my test roll, but no success Perfect negatives - and often even with normal tap water and without photo flo etc. I use one sided squeege and do one gentle wipe on the base side through the whole film.

I think this myth "squeezing scratches your negatives" is busted

 

[Anon Ymous]

...I think this myth "squeezing scratches your negatives" is busted

Wait until you use the squeegee with some grit on it.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

By kitchen roll I am of course talking about the giant toilet paper stuff that is disposable abd about 9" square.

Squeegeing your film may work most of the time, but if you ever get any particles on the film (not that uncommon) you will pay for it. perhaps try the kitchen roll on the base side first as this is very gentle and does not affect the emulsion side. Squeegeing will be about your last option if this does not work. I used to get AWFUL air bubble issues, which pretty well vanished and are now much better with new spirals. Its annoying how little gremlins can ruin things!

 

[Andrew Moxom]

pmu, squeegeeing is a valid concern. I use distilled water and photo flo as my final rinse, and I still have to squeegee my Neopan 120 format negs, but only on the base side and not on the emulsion side. I get no water marks anymore by doing that. Do not REPEAT DO NOT squeegee the emulsion side.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

A trick that works really well is to use an old windshield wiper and photo flo. Wet the wiper with wetting agent before you apply it to the film.

Your results may vary, but this works very well for me in all sorts of water (distilled, reverse osmosis, boiled, or tap from three different sources) for both 35mm and medium format film. My final rinse is the 'End of Run' from Sprint. Glorious stuff.

- Thomas