Negative Toner?

Also notice that print-toning chemistry seems to hinge on the silver (compound) content of photographic prints. Presumably then, the same chemistry ought to affect the photographic emulsion on motion picture film / stills film negative?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin_silver_process

Is this so please?

Thanks

Isn't motion picture film reversed with a dying process leaving no silver compounds behind in the process?

The linked file from Kodak has some relevant information that should help answer your question:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/g23/g23.pdf

Thanks.

Old-N-Feeble said:

Isn't motion picture film reversed with a dying process leaving no silver compounds behind in the process?

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While Karl A wrote:

The linked file from Kodak has some relevant information that should help answer your question:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/g23/g23.pdf

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pdf states that you can also 'use toner to treat black-and-white negatives and slides, converting the silver image to silver sulfide'

Well since a positive slide image is basically a reversed negative, this then suggests that motion picture film frames do indeed contain compounds of silver. Is this correct please?

Additionally, it states here that 'there are chemical differences between black & white and colour film. Black-and-white film imagery is made of silver metal particles.' (2.2 BLACK & WHITE vs. COLOR) http://www.filmforever.org/chap2.html This would tend to support the impression that motion picture film frames contain silver in their composition?

What is the opinion of the forum please?

Many thanks

I would find an old cine film you don't want any more, cut it into two or three foot lengths and experiment by seesawing individual lengths through sepia toner solutions and perhaps various solutions from a Colovir kit, if you can find one. Experiment and find out what looks the way you want.

cliveh said:

I would find an old cine film you don't want any more, cut it into two or three foot lengths and experiment by seesawing individual lengths through sepia toner solutions and perhaps various solutions from a Colovir kit, if you can find one. Experiment and find out what looks the way you want.

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Sounds like a good idea, thanks. Have used Colovir in the past with odd results

http://youtu.be/Qy7zgXFMoFw

kr236rk said:

Additionally, it states here that 'there are chemical differences between black & white and colour film. Black-and-white film imagery is made of silver metal particles.' (2.2 BLACK & WHITE vs. COLOR) http://www.filmforever.org/chap2.html This would tend to support the impression that motion picture film frames contain silver in their composition?

What is the opinion of the forum please?

Many thanks

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Yes black and white cinema films contain silver. But almost all movies are shot on colour film these days and transferred to black and white in post-production (through digital intermediate). There are two types of cinema film, camera negative film for recording the moving image and print film for creating the final film reel for projection. See links below:

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uplo...s/BW_Negative/Technical_Data/5222_techpub.pdf

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_lab_h1so302.pdf

I don't know any more than what those documents can tell you. However, I'm pretty confident in saying that all colour film has no silver after processing and therefore can't be toned. Hopefully that helps answer your question?

Karl A said:

Yes black and white cinema films contain silver. But almost all movies are shot on colour film these days and transferred to black and white in post-production (through digital intermediate). There are two types of cinema film, camera negative film for recording the moving image and print film for creating the final film reel for projection. See links below:

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uplo...s/BW_Negative/Technical_Data/5222_techpub.pdf

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_lab_h1so302.pdf

I don't know any more than what those documents can tell you. However, I'm pretty confident in saying that all colour film has no silver after processing and therefore can't be toned. Hopefully that helps answer your question?

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Thanks. Only want to tone black and white film - so that would be 'reversal' black and white (motion or cine) film as opposed to negative stills film, the film that analogue stills cameras use. The cinema "camera negative film" you speak of is presumably of the 'Vision' type which is shot in cine cameras but then telecined direct to video. Don't favour that cos you lose a lot of the cine feel that way - but that's just a personal reservation.

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/image.aspx?Pic=Mini&Alias=VISION3_200T_PROCESS___TELECIN

As regards colour (reversal) film - thanks to Kodak - it is now as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth.

A fair number of people do shoot black and white negative cine film stock in still cameras - emulsions like 5222 are attuned to the needs of cinematographers and the 35mm versions have slightly different perforations but they will work reasonably well in still cameras.

They were designed to be used with complementary print stocks - the movies were shot on one negative film, and then printed on to another negative film for distribution and projection.

The print stocks are not suitable for in camera exposure.

Both types of cine film are negative films which would be susceptible to the effects of toning, in that they leave silver in place after development and fixing.

A direct positive black and white film - one that is used in a reversal process that yields a positive image in a single step - would not be suitable for toning, because the reversal process removes the silver.

MattKing said:

A direct positive black and white film - one that is used in a reversal process that yields a positive image in a single step - would not be suitable for toning, because the reversal process removes the silver.

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You are saying there is no silver in black & white reversal film after it has been processed please? In that case it's Colorvir for alternative effects - since that chemistry appears to work on gelatin.

Thank you

In reversal processing, a negative image is first obtained by normal development, which is then dissolved away with a bleach bath and the silver remaining is exposed or chemically fogged and developed to form a positive image. So silver is still there and toning should work. I'm not sure what the one step process Matt is mentioning.

Gosh.

That sort of makes sense. I toned some b/w cine film couple of years ago and it went brown and blue. Unfortunately I never got to view the results since the lab it was sent off to, in order to split it (Standard 8) promptly dunked it back into processing and I received a blank film at the other end

jcc said:

I use Ilford's selenium toner on all my negs.

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a few years back, I toned negativesbriefly(1min)in a weak polysulphide solution to add life to my negatives.However,I gave it upbecause, occasionally I ended up withminor sulfur deposits scratching the emulsion.Alsostored in a dark,dry and cool environment,well processed negatives will last a long time.I sometimes print 70-year old negatives my father made in his darkroom(bathroom really)and I'm surethat he was not too concerned about archival processing.