Negative Toner?

kr236rk · Sep 18, 2014

Hi,

With the apparent demise of Speedibrews, what materials remain available - raw &/or commercial (kits?) - for toning negatives please?

http://www.speedibrews.com/

Many thanks,

Ric

jcc · Sep 18, 2014

I use Ilford's selenium toner on all my negs.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 19, 2014

I am assuming that the OP is interested in preservation of his negatives although the post did not make this completely clear. Selenium toner can also be used as an intensifier. When used to produce archival permanence selenium toners do a mediocre job. Research into permanence for microfilm has shown that only sulfide toners produce the desired result. In addition toning must go to completion for either toner to be of any benefit. This means a complete change in the color of the silver image.

jochen · Sep 19, 2014

Hello,
there exist many formulations for colour toning of negatives. The best known is the conversion of the silver image into prussian blue (in German: Berliner Blau) by ferricyanide and iron salts. You get a Blue/White negative. When we did this last time in the seventies at the university for presentations with AGEPE FF microfilm, we had big problems with uneven toning/stripes/cloudy colour. Other formulations use colour developer and bleach-fixer like in the C-41 process but only for one colour.

pdeeh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Hi,

With the apparent demise of Speedibrews, what materials remain available - raw &/or commercial (kits?) - for toning negatives please?

http://www.speedibrews.com/

Many thanks,

Ric

What makes you think that Speedibrews have suffered a demise?
That website still looks live, I exchanged emails with Michael Maunder last year about his products, and they seem still to be available, at least in the UK, from Silverprint, and from Process Supplies.

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

pdeeh said:
What makes you think that Speedibrews have suffered a demise?
That website still looks live, I exchanged emails with Michael Maunder last year about his products, and they seem still to be available, at least in the UK, from Silverprint, and from Process Supplies.

Thanks, I was in Silverprint yesterday - they told me Speedibrews had been gone for some time :-|

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

jochen said:
Hello,
there exist many formulations for colour toning of negatives. The best known is the conversion of the silver image into prussian blue (in German: Berliner Blau) by ferricyanide and iron salts. You get a Blue/White negative. When we did this last time in the seventies at the university for presentations with AGEPE FF microfilm, we had big problems with uneven toning/stripes/cloudy colour. Other formulations use colour developer and bleach-fixer like in the C-41 process but only for one colour.

Thanks, where do you get the chemistry from though?

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
I am assuming that the OP is interested in preservation of his negatives although the post did not make this completely clear. Selenium toner can also be used as an intensifier. When used to produce archival permanence selenium toners do a mediocre job. Research into permanence for microfilm has shown that only sulfide toners produce the desired result. In addition toning must go to completion for either toner to be of any benefit. This means a complete change in the color of the silver image.

Yes, why does the OP wish to tone a negative?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
Yes, why does the OP wish to tone a negative?

Thank you. I'd like to tone some black & white film.

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Thank you. I'd like to tone some black & white film.

But for what reason?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
But for what reason?

Well, basically, just to see what happens - but the problem now is finding user-friendly chemistry, I don't fancy mixing negative toner up from raw materials. At least selenium appears to be commercially available anyway.

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Well, basically, just to see what happens - but the problem now is finding user-friendly chemistry, I don't fancy mixing negative toner up from raw materials. At least selenium appears to be commercially available anyway.

What will happen is that you will have a toned negative.

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
What will happen is that you will have a toned negative.

Yes, or a toned positive in terms of cine film?

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Yes, or a toned positive in terms of cine film?

So despite quoting a negative in your OP, are you now saying you wish to tone some cine film?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
So despite quoting a negative in your OP, are you now saying you wish to tone some cine film?

Because it should be identical chemistry, but please correct me if I err.

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Because it should be identical chemistry, but please correct me if I err.

Great, we are now getting closer to your question. Is the cine film in black & white or colour?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
... Is the cine film in black & white or colour?

Black & white please colour film is virtually unobtainable now :-|

Alex Muir · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Yes, or a toned positive in terms of cine film?

Hi. There was a thread recently in the same part of the forum. It was titled "Toners on motion picture films". I don't know how to post the link to it, but it was started on 14 August or thereabouts so should be easy to find. It may contain some useful info.

Alex

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
Black & white please colour film is virtually unobtainable now :-|

How about using a sepia toner?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

Alex Muir said:
Hi. There was a thread recently in the same part of the forum. It was titled "Toners on motion picture films". I don't know how to post the link to it, but it was started on 14 August or thereabouts so should be easy to find. It may contain some useful info. Alex

Many thanks

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
How about using a sepia toner?

That sounds good, thanks. I guess the best thing is to experiment on some cine film or 35mm negative and see what happens best?

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
But for what reason?

Perhaps, together with underprocessing, to lengthen and straighten the H&D curve thereby improving microcontrast? Selenium will do that but sepia will not. Why sepia tone film?

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
Perhaps, together with underprocessing, to lengthen and straighten the H&D curve thereby improving microcontrast? Selenium will do that but sepia will not. Why sepia tone film?

to get different tones &/or colours into black & white cine film.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 19, 2014

kr236rk said:
to get different tones &/or colours into black & white cine film.

Cine film wasn't mentioned in the OP (just negative film).

Gerald C Koch · Sep 19, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
Cine film wasn't mentioned in the OP (just negative film).

Yes, it would have been nice to have known this from the start. It's easier to provide help when one is in possession of all the pertinent facts.

Negative Toner?

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