Negative Spotting Question

rjbuzzclick · Mar 28, 2017

Hi All,

I have a 4x5 negative that has a small, curly, clear hair-line on it from a piece of dust that was on the film during exposure. I would like to spot this on the negative so it will show up white on the print and be easier to spot back down darker. I have some experience and success spotting prints, but have never had any luck etching prints which is why I'd like to deal with this on the negative.

The smallest brush I have is a 3/0 which is too big, and have not found anything smaller. I'm thinking that I can trim one of my 3/0 brushes down until it's just a few bristles (testing on a scrap negative of course). Is this the best solution, or is there possibly a better way to approach this?

Thanks for any advice you have,

Reid

jeffreyg · Mar 28, 2017

Reid

You should be able to find a 5/0 brush. Check with Blick artist supplies. Also some photos supplies have spotting brushes. Office supplies like Office Depot have pens with 0.5mm tips. As I recall Kodak used to have a special medium for spotting negatives. I have a bottle of it somewhere but it has probably dried up. Unless someone posts better info, an internet search will probably have the answer for you.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Hatchetman · Mar 28, 2017

I would make a couple of prints first as insurance.

rjbuzzclick · Mar 28, 2017

Thanks for the replies everyone.

jeffreyg- The brushes I have were the smallest Blick had when I bought them a while back. I'll check back, and also look at pens too and test them on a scrap negative.

Greg Davis- I was wondering about that, but the extra fine point Sharpie I have seemed too large. I'll try it on a scrap negative though and see, and also test to see how easy it cleans off if (when) I make a mistake.

Hatchetman- I agree, and it may not even bother me on the final print.

Reid

bvy · Mar 28, 2017

I wonder if you couldn't make a very small dodging tool of something like a ball of crumpled up clear plastic wrap and move this around in the light path of the problem area. The idea is to "blur" that area. I've read about this approach but haven't (yet) tried it.

dasBlute · Mar 28, 2017

I found spotting the negative is pretty hard to do well, I tried with a 0.05mm pen and plenty of magnification,
might be ok for a few spots, a curve is even harder. I think digital has spoiled us in some ways, go look
at an Ansel up close sometimes, there are spots

dpurdy · Mar 28, 2017

If you have steady hands and some magnification there is a trick that I have used several times. Get a brand new sharp Xacto blade in your knife and, working on the base of the film, very lightly touch and abrade with just the sharp tip over the area that needs density. A slight abrasion of the base will act as density. Magnification is important of course. I wear two pairs of reading glasses when I do that so I can get my eyes really close. Then you can very precisely etch the hair on the base.

rjbuzzclick · Mar 28, 2017

bvy- That's an interesting approach I've not thought of. The advantage in my situation to this approach is that most of the defect is over smoke, so smearing might be easy to do.

dasBlute- Good points. I only do this for my own enjoyment, so I have a low threshold for success!

dpurdy- I'm hesitant to use an approach like this given my lack of success etching prints. The defect might be too fine for my inexperience to correct at this stage too. It's an interesting idea though and I might want to experiment with it on another negative.

I had another member PM me about using red water-soluble poster paint on the base side. Fairly easily removed if goofed up. I think this and possibly a very fine pen (also on the base side) might be my first plans of attack. I did try a retouching pencil on the base side but there wasn't really enough tooth for the graphite to grab on to. The film is Arista Ultra EDU 100 (Fomapan 100).

Thanks everyone for the continued ideas.

EdSawyer · Mar 28, 2017

for finer point pens than sharpie, look up a Kohinoor Rapidograph. If they are still made (most likely) those can be had with unbelievably fine tips, .1mm or smaller. They take refillable ink, e.g. india ink or other types. They were popular as a technical drawing pen back in the day.

MattKing · Mar 28, 2017

Use a red fine point marker and really, really tiny spots.
And a diffusion light source!

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 28, 2017

I inherited a jar of that Kodak red dye from a retired screen printer. I prefer to spot the negative than scratch away black spots from the print. Spotting negatives is easy. Practice on discarded negatives. I use a fine 000 brush, and wear +5 spectacles. I work with diluted Kodak red stuff, applying tiny dots on the backside of the negative. Build up the density slowly. I'm amazed at how easy it is.

Luckless · Mar 28, 2017

Are you by any chance an electronics geek/gear head as well as a film photographer?

I've seen a video for a rather neat rig for spotting negatives that was based around a solid copy-stand, and a super fine detailed plotter. (a pen based printer.)
The negative was mounted on the base of the copy-stand/plotter device, imaged, and processed into a vector file for the areas specifically targeted for spotting, and then the file was fed into the plotter system to be spotted by a high precision robotic system.

I would have to go digging for it again. The system was a project between an aging photographer who was struggling to maintain the eyesight and steady enough hands to spot prints themselves and a programmer.

Was kind of neat, as it could do dithering patterns of ultra fine dots and multiple dye toning to blend everything together so that it hid beautifully well.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 28, 2017

I had the same problem with brushes. I ended up using a shaved toothpick dipped into Kodak opaque.

rjbuzzclick · Mar 28, 2017

I made a few prints of the negative today. The dust squiggle is actually pretty unobtrusive but I think I'll still have a go at fixing it on the negative at some point, if only for the exercise of doing it.

EdSawyer- I've heard of those pens. They should be available used if not new. That got me thinking, I have some 1930's era fountain pens with some really fine points, they might work well to with a very dilute red or black water-based ink to dab along the defect.

MattKing- Thanks. Red ink seems to be a popular choice. Only condenser enlargers here (D2V)!

Andrew O'Neil- I have some Spotone and Marshall Spotall. I'm no expert, but have the patience to work slowly, so the spotting I have done has turned out fine for my purposes. I just cannot get the hang of etching though. I generally only work with RC so that might have something to do with it too. I've never tried etching on FB.

Luckless- Electronics geek, yes, but my electronic design experience only goes as far as rewiring electric guitars and making flashing LED circuits for Iron Man accessories for my 11-year-old son. That sounds like a pretty impressive spotting system.

Mainecoonmaniac- I like the toothpick idea!

Thanks everyone for your responses,

Reid

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