Negative Problems...

[Will Whelan]

Either MF just plain hates me, or I've got a mistake somewhere along the line in my setup. All the negs I shoot lately are coming out very light density (dark when scanned), unless I shoot them in bright daytime type scenes. I'm using a Hasselblad 500c/m, with an old Gossen meter (that works, I've had it checked), and I'm processing Fuji and Ilford b/w film in D76 chem in my laundry room.

The D76 is stock solution, and I'm reusing it (I'm a student... no money) at a rate of about 16 rolls per half gallon of mix. I've heard it's OK to reuse stock, but not 1:1. I'm using development times that I've gotten from the film manufacturers, and I've compared them to other sources (digitaltruth, etc) and it all seems to be just right. I'm stopping with the Kodak Indicator stock for about a minute, fixing with the liquid Kodafix for about 4-6 mins, and washing for 10-12 mins with cold water. I use a thermometer for my developer, and I usually get a temp. of about 20C.

My last roll of film was Fuji Acros 100, dark scenes (low apo and 1/125 or lower shutter), developed in stock D76 for 7.25 mins at 20C. The developer has had about 11 rolls through it by now.

That's a whole lot of repetitive information, but I hope it gives you a complete idea of what process I follow. Any help on the subject of producing negatives with a regular density would be much appreciated!

 

[Dave Parker]

Sounds like other than Bright Daylight, you may be underexposing the film, are you using any filtration when shooting that perhaps you need to compensate for? Have you checked your camera to make sure your slower speeds are working correctly? You might do a couple of rolls and bracket on either side of what the meter says by about 1 stop and make sure to keep notes and see if the camera could be the problem.

Like I say, it sounds more like it may be in the exposure..

Dave

 

[Will Whelan]

You might be right, but the shutter speeds shouldn't be a problem as I shoot MF with a Yashicamat and I end up with the same problem. Filters (compensated for) or not, I get the problem...

I think it's either my scanner (Canoscan 8400f) or my D76. Very idiotically, I had been processing my film in stock D76 with 1:1 times... it would sometimes come out dark but otherwise acceptable. Since I caught this error and fixed my times I've been getting negs that my scanner won't scan with decent tone. When MF is usually sharp, the low density negs look like total trash.

I'll def. run a roll and bracket, but I don't know about shooting 100 ISO film in low light with any lower exposure settings than I've been using without tripod and a very still subject. This doesn't matter for testing, but to shoot 100 ISO in low light at anything but still life wouldn't work. Perhaps 100 just doesn't preform in that kind of light? Should you only use 400 or higher in this type of situation?

 

[atenlaugh]

You might be right, but the shutter speeds shouldn't be a problem as I shoot MF with a Yashicamat and I end up with the same problem. Filters (compensated for) or not, I get the problem...

I think it's either my scanner (Canoscan 8400f) or my D76. Very idiotically, I had been processing my film in stock D76 with 1:1 times... it would sometimes come out dark but otherwise acceptable. Since I caught this error and fixed my times I've been getting negs that my scanner won't scan with decent tone. When MF is usually sharp, the low density negs look like total trash.

I'll def. run a roll and bracket, but I don't know about shooting 100 ISO film in low light with any lower exposure settings than I've been using without tripod and a very still subject. This doesn't matter for testing, but to shoot 100 ISO in low light at anything but still life wouldn't work. Perhaps 100 just doesn't preform in that kind of light? Should you only use 400 or higher in this type of situation?

Slow-medium speed film will perform fine in such lighting situations. If I were a betting man, I would bet that your scanner is the issue. It sounds like you're judgings the negaatives by how the scanner is reacting to them (the 8400f in particular seems to have a rather short scale). Put the negs up to light and judge the densities with your eyes. Are you getting both thin and dense areas, with reasonable gradation between?

Are you compensating correctly for reciprocity failure, with exposures of longer than 1 second?

 

[Willie Jan]

how are the numbers on the film. Are they lightgrey or dark.

They should be dark, but not black. These inprints by the factury are optimised, so when these are to light on your negs, your deveopment is the problem. When the numbers are dark, your lightning will be the problem.

 

[Huub S]

As you are reusing stock solution, do you compensate your development times? I don't have the data of D76 at hand, but the XTOL data give that you should compensate after 5 films in one liter stock solution with a 15% longer time and after 10 films with an other 15%. Instead of reusing stock solution i would advise you to dilute to 1+1 and use it as one shot developer. It gives much better repeatable results. Developer is not that expensive: for XTOL i pay something like 25 cents per film.

 

[Will Whelan]

I don't know if D76 dies out over time, like your XTOL. At least I've never seen instructions to compensate dev. times as I reuse. I think what I'll do is shoot a roll of identical exposures, cut it in half, process half in the reused junk and half in fresh-mixed new D76, and check the results.

I did look at the film lettering, and some are a tiny bit lighter than others. I think the problem is in the processing. I'm sure my test will tell.

Thanks for reminding me about reciprocity failure, as I had spaced that out. I didn't make any exposures over 1 second on this roll, but a roll that I did some cityscapenightshot style things on came out funky a while ago, and I think that might be why.

Oh, and if anyone could dish out some D76 times for Ilford FP4, that'd be great. I'm really wondering how accurate the information the manufacturer gives you is... and I'd like to see if anyone has their own time that they figure works "the best". Also, if anyone has ideas on how to get a Canoscan 8400f to be a little more sensitive to the lighter b/w film, that'd be really helpful. The negs look like they would print ok, but they just won't scan!

Thanks a lot for the help everyone.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I don't know if D76 dies out over time, like your XTOL. At least I've never seen instructions to compensate dev. times as I reuse. I think what I'll do is shoot a roll of identical exposures, cut it in half, process half in the reused junk and half in fresh-mixed new D76, and check the results.

I did look at the film lettering, and some are a tiny bit lighter than others. I think the problem is in the processing. I'm sure my test will tell.

Thanks for reminding me about reciprocity failure, as I had spaced that out. I didn't make any exposures over 1 second on this roll, but a roll that I did some cityscapenightshot style things on came out funky a while ago, and I think that might be why.

Oh, and if anyone could dish out some D76 times for Ilford FP4, that'd be great. I'm really wondering how accurate the information the manufacturer gives you is... and I'd like to see if anyone has their own time that they figure works "the best". Also, if anyone has ideas on how to get a Canoscan 8400f to be a little more sensitive to the lighter b/w film, that'd be really helpful. The negs look like they would print ok, but they just won't scan!

Thanks a lot for the help everyone.

Ilford make a developer (Ilford ID-11) that is the chemical and functional equivalent of Kodak D-76.

See: http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/PDF/ID-11.pdf

Ilford states: " We do not recommend reusing diluted developers, 1+1 and 1+3, always use fresh solutions on each occasion."

For developing Ilford FP4 Plus rated at ISO 50 in the stock solution of ID-11 (or D76) Ilford recommends developing for 14 minutes at 20C/68F.

 

[Gerald Koch]

You cannot develop 16 rolls of film in 1/2 gallon of D-76 without extending the development time to compensate for each roll of film developed. As each roll is developed bromide ion is released into the developer from the film which retards development of subsequent rolls. In addition, some of the developing agents are used up. The more rolls developed the more the development time is retarded.

You're other choice is to buy a package of D-76R replenisher and add the recommended amount to the developer after each roll is developed.

TANSTAAFL "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

 

[Will Whelan]

I'll make a fresh batch of D76 then, and only develop with 1:1 as a one-shot developer. The time you gave for FP4 is exactly what I've done on a roll, and it came out oddly. It's not an issue of temperature or time, but the fact that I'm reusing it... Thanks a lot everyone. I should be good to go now!

 

[fschifano]

Hey Will, you should check Kodak's web site. They have some of the most comprehensive technical documentation available. I don't see too much evidence of Kodak bashing on this site, but there are some folks out there who paint the company as the "Evil Yellow One." Pay no attention for they know not of what they speak. See this page http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...ssing/d76.jhtml?id=0.1.20.14.18.14.7.14&lc=en for everything you ever wanted to know about D-76, then browse through some of the other material they have for their B&W film line. No one does it better.

 

[noseoil]

Will, if you are able to get a little money ahead, you might consider a one-shot developer like PMK or Pyrocat. Both are very inexpensive to use, give good tonality on a wide range of films and last quite a while. Because they are one shot developers, you don't have to worry about the developer going south on you over time. Mix once, develop film and discard.

Just by way of information, is your temperature consistent with each development? Remember, there are plenty of variables in film development. tim