Negative Filing/Numbering System

[Nicole]

Calling all highly organised photographers...

There are so many different ways to file our negatives.
My commercial work is always organised and very easy to find as each client & each roll gets it's own dedicated numbers.

Projects is a whole different system - that I'm constantly trying to perfect.
Project name, year, roll no., neg no.

What is the best and easiest and most accurate filing system you know of or have?

 

[colrehogan]

Nicole,
That is a loaded question! Actually, have you searched APUG for something along this line? There have been occasional threads regarding negative filing and organization.

Why not treat your project negatives the same way you treat your commercial work? I mean, if you organize the commercial work by client, make the project name equal to the client and then use the same system you are used to.

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

I file everything in separate folders, marked with letters of the alphabet. So 22/76(A) is the 22nd negative on the roll of page 76 in folder A. Most everything I do is in 35mm though, so that makes my job a bit easier I think.
On top of this I just mark the back of each print with the location of it's negative, so when I have a project the negatives could be spread out through a folder. I'm working on making contact prints of a lot of old negatives to help keep track too...

I figure by the time I'm up to folder Z, I'll have come up with a better system.

 

[Mike Wilde]

My system

I number the rolls as I process them, sort of.

I can sometimes let exposed color or B&w film pile up ( I process both at home) . So once a film is processed, and I put it into a filer page, I want to give it a reference number. There may be B&W, say if I am processing color that week, that was shot at the same time, but still awaits processing. Once upon a time I would try to number them all as I shot them. I did not work well for me.

Now if is is a film I process tonight, it will be 2008-2-3, because it is the third roll of film I have processed this month. Individual negatives in a page are identified by their frame number.

Pages that are developed but not yet contact printed go into a binder called 'contact printing backlog' Once they are printed they move to a binder called '2008'. Once picture is printed for enlargement I mark the frame in red with a sharpie, and write the neg # on the back of the contact sheet with the date it was printed.

I keep a series of printing notebooks. I write a date at the top of each page to index them. I don't record every exposure that I print, but try to note the paper, and developer used, and any weird dodging, burning, usm, etc. for a complicated print. Unsharp masks get filed taped to the neg filer page. I also keep a film development notebook series, and make note of the cross reference on the neg filer page to which notebook contains development info.

The 'year' binders are 3 ring 1" ring sized and have a clear plastic front. When the binder is full of neg filers and contact sheets, along with any photo releases (I file them with the negs), then I summarize any special projects on a sheet of paper and stick it under the clear plastic front of the binder.

 

[Nicole]

Hi Di, thank you. I agree, we've chewed on this one a few times. I'm doing something similar to what you suggested - and as usual am always on the lookout for other/better systems in the long run.

 

[SuzanneR]

I tend to keep personal work in roughly chronological order, and in separate binders from commercial work, which as you say is easier to assign numbers to. I am about to finish one portfolio, and the negatives for it will be filed in a new binder for just such finished portfolios so they can always be easily found.

I often don't know what a project will be until I've shot a lot of film... I'm too intuitive and perceptual a shooter. Got to go with the flow. Other's who shoot more conceptually can probably more easily use a similar system to your commercial one, but I find photographs that relate to each other, and work well together in a portfolio have often been made years apart!!

So, I keep things chronological, and from time to time, I will just flip though all the negative sheets... I do assign titles and dates, so I can remember where I was, and when... and see if any groupings begin to emerge.

Call it intuitive filing!!

 

[cmo]

A simple system is a good system, here is mine:

- Every exposed film gets a number, starting with 1 (my first in 1976), today the numbers are slightly higher For some historic reasons I have an "R" in front of the number for 120 roll films, but this is not necessary. No difference for BW, color, slide, whatever. They are all stored in ring binders, slides in boxes.

- Every image has a number. On a 35mm film this is something like 1-36, the last frame on my first film, a 120 roll film might have a 4711-12 (6x6 frames, right).

- I have a table - today in MS Excel - that has very few rows:

Film - Frame - Date - Subject
(more rows are an option and add more administrative work)

The film and frame number are on the reverse side of all prints and also in the IPTC data of all scans.

If I want to search a certain image I can either search for the film and frame number or for the subject.

Simple enough?

 

[BobNewYork]

BW135-15-06-3/4 - that's the third page out of four from the fifteenth 35mm B&W shoot in 2006. The neg sleeve has the actual date and subject.

CN120-37-05-1/2 - the first page of two from the 37th MF colour neg. shoot in 2005.

I also keep an Excel spreadsheet.

I'm not so sure it's overly informative but at least I feel I'm doing something!!!!

Bob

 

[david b]

I have a system that is simple and works well for me...

For example, if the neg sheet says 08-010-14 it translate to:
08 = 2008
010 = 10th sheet or roll
14 = the 14th negative

This number (08-010) also goes on the back of the contact sheet for easy reference.

I also put the exposed and developed date on the sheet along with developer and dilution/time.

 

[Neanderman]

BW135-15-06-3/4 - that's the third page out of four from the fifteenth 35mm B&W shoot in 2006. The neg sleeve has the actual date and subject.

CN120-37-05-1/2 - the first page of two from the 37th MF colour neg. shoot in 2005.

My system is similar:

35N-01-08 would be the first roll of 35mm, b/w negative film. Prints are then denoted by 35N-01-08/25 as the 25th frame.

N = b/w neg
C = c-41/color chromogenic negative
T = transparancy (either E-6 or K-14)

Roll film:
35 = 35mm
12 = 120

Sheet film:
23 = 2 1/4 x 3 1/4
45 = 4x5
57 = 5x7
81 = 8x10

No idea what I'll use when I get my friends 11x14 up and running.

I don't even try to keep them in order by project or idea. While most of what I shoot is with a specific idea in mind, there are what I would call 'short term' ideas and those that continually thread through my work. Plus, who knows when I might look at a few negs made years apart and think, 'Hey, there's an idea...'

Ed

 

[JBrunner]

I simply date the neg, or roll , and them a number if there is more than one for the date, and file them chronologically. For example the second neg or roll for today would be 020808-2.

I have a notebook where I jot down what I do on a given day. Since I work mosly with sheet film, my output is low, and so this seems to work well.

 

[Jon King]

I think I'm a less highly organized photographer, or at least, my organizatinal methods are different.


I used a strictly numeric system for several years (0603-12 - 12th roll, or actually 12th contact sheet of March(03) 2006. I had full page form that went with the negatives and contact sheet - all the shooting info, etc.

My problem with that system is when I'm looking for a negative, I know where I took the negative, I can see the image in my mind, but I only roughly know when I took it. Binders also don't work for me too well - when the negative sheet comes out, it often doesn't go back in. It and the contact sheet often get separated for extended periods too

Now, the contact sheet and negative page goes in a manila folder, with room on the top to write things like "San Antonio, 2007, Tri-X") If I shot several rolls there, they generally all go in one folder, perhaps numbered or lettered to tell them apart. On the folder itself, I write the printing data for images in that folder, to at least give me a starting point when I reprint. This way I'm able to keep all my information about the negatives in one spot, with very little effort - something that seems to be a problem for me otherwise!

Most of the folders are roughly in chronological order, which is perhaps a vestige of my old method - but folders from places I return to frequently tend to be grouped together, irrespective of when the film was exposed.

 

[johnnywalker]

I number and date all my 35 mm films and contact sheets. I scan the contacts and put them into a catalogue in Adobe Photoshop Elements 4. In the catalogue, you can attach all the "tags" you want to a contact sheet to help you retrieve it later. For instance one of your tags could be a project number, another could be "Smith's Kids" - whatever and however many you want. Then you can retrieve all the contacts that say "Smith's Kids" and "Blackie", or by project number, or by all three. So you could retrieve, for example, retrieve all the contact sheets that have both "Smith's Kid's" and their dog "Blackie". You can also date the contact to whatever date you want. The default date is the date it's retrieved into the program.
Adobe Photoshop Elements I think runs about $100. It's a great program.
I'm still thinking about the large format negatives. I don't have many yet, but don't want to scan them all. I suppose I could do six at a time.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

K.I.S.S.

Not actually referring to anyone as stupid! Thinking roll film (or digital) here, I have no experience with loose negs. I am inherently not a record keeper, so the less the better, AFAIC.

The purpose of filing and organizing is retrieval, not practicing databases. I have never needed to find neg 2008-02-08.01.23. But in my head, I know the image I want.

Our memories work best with some parallel information. Such as, what was the vacation, event, or significant point in time that will narrow it down. If you think to yourself, I want that shot of the old outhouse three holer seat (have one!), years later I know that was on a trip over Jones Pass, Colorado to Bearcat Creek. True, I do have three trips there, but even my feeble brain recalls I took it on the first one - which I did.

And if I couldn't recall? No big deal to hold a neg sheet to the light, or even better, glance at the contact sheet you made. ????? The image number is inconsequential until you have the strip in hand and am looking for it to print. But it's in front of you in a couple of seconds.

So, Mr. Smartypants, I shot twenty rolls at Bearcat Creek. Still no problem, because chances are you shot them over several days. Just put them in chrono order.

Out of thousands of images we may own, only a relative few deserve needing to access again. In digital, I just copy them to a "Best" folder. In film, a simple list in your folder drawer or 3 ring binder will do. Outhouse seat, Jones Creek, x-x-0x. Oh yeah. Flip the binder open, there's the contact sheet, there's the strip I need. And similar shots if I want something shot right about then.

Of course my system would probably freak out the structured types. But it works for me. And I spend very little time or effort cataloging, more time for shooting or beer.

 

[Mick Fagan]

My system is simple and chronological.

At the start of each year I start a new numbering system.

The first roll would be 080001 the date the film is processed is also stamped on the neg file.

The break down of this number is 08 year, 0001 is the roll or sheet number

Printing a frame from that roll could be 08000125 with 25 being the frame number.

Further down the track with say 15 rolls/sheets developed the number would be, 080015.

These days I don't do anywhere near 1,000 rolls a year as it's strictly a hobby, but when I started this system I was regularly going through 1,500 to 3,000 rolls a year.

The simpleness of the system means I can find anything reasonably quickly. Last year I was asked to re-print some wedding pictures. Their photographs had been destroyed in a house fire, I just asked for their wedding date, which was about 18 years ago, walked to the darkroom and found the negs in about 2 minutes, then I found the contact sheets which I keep in separate boxes in about the same time.

Mick.

 

[Dan Henderson]

If I shoot a roll today, it will be numbered 2008-02-09-01. If I shoot 2 rolls today, the second is 2008-02-09-02, etc. I file the negatives from each roll in a file folder along with the contact sheet and any work prints that result from the roll. I keep a 3 ring binder of contact sheets of each roll to make finding a particular image easier. It is surprising how I can narrow down to a short search a particular roll, even several years old.

 

[dancqu]

... - and as usual am always on the lookout for
other/better systems in the long run.

I tie together a negative and all that goes with it using
a roll number and year noted on the glassine sleeves used
for storage. The range of frames is also noted on each sleeve.
This year's first roll will be marked 1-08 and each of the three
sleeves marked in regard to the frames therein. Dan

 

[sfw3]

My numbering system is pretty straightforward --- date and roll or sheet number. For instance a roll processed today would be 080209-1. The problem I have is creating some sort of system to find specific images. I can label every contact sheet and print but down the road how do I find a picture I know I made but can't remember when. And I have thousands of rolls of negatives to go through.

Over the years I have created computer based systems but they never really lasted. Whether a result of my temperament or bad habits a paper journal still seems to work best but still is cumbersome...

 

[Ian Leake]

All my negs are numbered: [date]-[composition number]-[holder side], [date]-P[polaroid number], or [date]-[roll number]-[frame number] depending on whether sheet film, Polaroid or roll film. So "080209-03-A" was the holder side A for the third composition made yesterday and "080209-P07" was the seventh Polaroid made yesterday. All negative sleeves, prints, scans, etcetera are named with this ID so I can always tell from which negative a print or scan was made. But I actually file the negatives based on the person's name (or other subject if appropriate) then sorted by the negative ID because I find them easier to find that way.

 

[Chuck_P]

All my negatives are filed in chronological order with each assigned a date, for today's sheets I exposed, each will be ID by the following (the number in parenthesis indicates the order that it was exposed today), I shot three sheets today, so"

0209-08(1)
0209-08(2)
0209-08(3)

I make contact sheets of each 4x5 negative on 5x7 RC paper and attach the corresponding ID number. The contact sheets are filed by project name in a folder or old paper box. So. it's a simple matter to view the contact sheets at any time and easily grab the negative when needed. Simple.

Chuck

 

[Edwardv]

My system is similar:

No idea what I'll use when I get my friends 11x14 up and running.

Ed

Try 114. And should you do the following 16x20, 620, and 20x24, 2024.

Have a nice day.

 

[dancqu]

The problem I have is creating some sort of system
to find specific images. I can label every contact sheet
and print but down the road how do I find a picture I know
I made but can't remember when.

As I've mentioned this thread glassine sleeves are marked
chronologically by roll number and year; eg, 3-06, 2-01,
1-07. Prints and print notes are marked additionally
with frame number. Field notes are 3x5 cards
marked with roll and year.

Now the problem you pose is I believe another matter.
A matter which concerns us all. If I'm not mistaken the
problem posed is one of finding a negative of some
subject photographed but When? Why When?
Why not Where? Or both? I include in my
field notes a coded Where.

How about the Who-What-Why-Where-When of good
journalistic questioning? Dan

 

[Nicole]

It's been a while since I dropped in here. As always, commercial negs are well organised. Personal work still needs sorting - urgently - as 1000's of negs build up over the years!! Thank you to everyone who has contributed their suggestions and systems. 2011 will be a year with quite a few changes, so I better get my past personal negs sorted. Will drop back in with results in time.

 

[okto]

My system is <medium><year>.<roll>.<frame>

So, for example, D2005.003.019 is the 19th frame of the third "roll" (digital is a special case, each time I upload is a new "roll").

Media codes are as follows:
A: albumen/colloidal
B: black and white (silver process)
C: color neg
D: digital
E: E6 positive
F*: found
I: integral instant (Polaroid 600, Fuji Instax)
K: Kodachrome
N: paper neg
P: peel-apart instant, pack or sheet

*Found film gets categorized this way too, with the letter F prepended: FI2007.002 is the second Polaroid 600 image I found in 2007.

 

[Domin]

I just number my negs, separate for b&w, and a few color processes denoted with letters. Roughly chronological.

I'm surprised with ubiquity of putting the year or even whole date in the key part of system. I do not want extra four digits every time I put the reference to a roll in my notes. My code is 4 chars max long and it likely will stay that way for another 10+ years.

Virtually all my BW negs are completely undated and I've never had any problem with that. I find that for most of my work, when it was taken is of little relevance. And if it is, its the month not year that matters. I keep most data in text files and some spreadsheet and I don't even have a column for date. If I once in a while I fancy one it ends up in "notes" column. Perhaps its just me - I've never done any commercial work, and I'm mostly unable to connect any event with year if its not the current or last one. The past is mostly timeless blob for me and I'm ok with that.