Negative files CAUSING scratches?

Stock Dektol · Aug 17, 2009

Hey all,

This may just be me being supercritical.

After some years of processing film and storing all of my negatives in Clearfile negative sheets i've noticed that in some cases the negatives have very small superficial scratches on the glossy side of the film. The scratches run horizontal. I'm almost convinced that the scratches are due to the negative sheets as i've never noticed this on my negatives before inserting them.

Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and if the scratches will affect print quality. I'm pretty sure that they won't as the haven't in the past.

Anyhow just wondering. I can't test this as I have no darkroom access until september.

clayne · Aug 17, 2009

Yes. Do NOT use those sleeves that allow a negative to slide against the sleeve. Buy polyester fold-lock sleeves.

The archival album sleeves that allow direct insertion of the negative are bad, bad, bad. Fortunately Printfile sells "Ultima" sleeves that allow one to slide the polyester fold-lock sleeves within the album sleeve, avoiding any negative abrasion.

Go here for actual research: Dead Link Removed

PBrooks · Aug 17, 2009

Yes I did notice it and yes it does show up in the print. I have switched to vellum to stop that and also humidity(Taiwan).

Chris Nielsen · Aug 17, 2009

Well that blows me away! I've been noticing the same thing, although now I'm using a different brand I haven't had the problem but it never occurred to me that it might be the files! Wow!

PBrooks · Aug 17, 2009

Strange that after so many years, they start scratching negs or that we start noticing. They either changed the files somehow or we started caring a lot more.

ooze · Aug 17, 2009

I noticed the same thing with Printfile sleeves. It happens on my 35mm negs, but not with 120 film. The scratches don't show on my diffuser enlarger, but they do on the condensor. Now I've switched to glassine sleeves for 35mm and have no problems.

Stock Dektol · Aug 17, 2009

This is terrible!

I can't believe this. What brands of negative storage do you guys recommend. I actually have an unused patterson "negative file 35" system which seems to use some sort of glassine. Sort of like wax paper. Would this be adequate? Any links to resources to obtain the safer sleeves? I'll do anything to protect my images!

clayne · Aug 17, 2009

PBrooks said:
Strange that after so many years, they start scratching negs or that we start noticing. They either changed the files somehow or we started caring a lot more.

Most likely dust over the years has had a higher chance of scratching the negs upon removal and you notice it more now vs pulling a negative that had only been in there for 2 weeks.

Stock Dektol said:
This is terrible!

I can't believe this. What brands of negative storage do you guys recommend. I actually have an unused patterson "negative file 35" system which seems to use some sort of glassine. Sort of like wax paper. Would this be adequate? Any links to resources to obtain the safer sleeves? I'll do anything to protect my images!

As mentioned before.

Polyester fold-lock sleeves. They're available in almost every common film and print size.

Read this: Dead Link Removed

PBrooks · Aug 17, 2009

clayne, in my case these were new negs, new print file sleeves. Thanks by the way for that PDF, it explained alot. I now have a name for the humidity that gets inside between the plastic and the neg, it's called ferrotyping. Even though my negs stay about 2-3 feet away from a de-humidifer that stays on 24hrs a day. I thought I knew what humidity was being from Louisiana but it has nothing on Taiwan, not at all. I have solved this problem with vellum and have promised myself to never use printfile or anything like it again.

Jerevan · Aug 17, 2009

Just couple of questions: where can I get these fold-lock sleeves? And if you do use the vellum files, how do you do contact sheets?

reellis67 · Aug 17, 2009

I've never seen this problem, but I can see how it could happen if the negative is not totally free of dust. I don't remove many of my older 35mm negatives from their print-file pages these days, but my larger film sizes use top opening storage materials like those listed above and they seem to work very well - no friction at all on the negative to insert/remove. I now get my archiving supplies from this place - http://www.archivalmethods.com/ - as they have a wide range of options, ship quickly, and are easy to work with on the phone.

- Randy

Stock Dektol · Aug 17, 2009

Hey guys:

I think I found a source for the proper negative "fold lock" sleeves. They are made by clearfile. They fit into the negative sleeves we already have-- which is no doubt good.

Clayne-- This is what your talking about, right? These show that they hold six frame strips yet the actual sleeves only hold 5 frames-- how does that work?

http://www.archivalusa.com/fff35.html

-- James

BetterSense · Aug 17, 2009

I also what to know where I can buy these superior negative sleeves because all I've ever seen at camera shops or Freestyle photo or whatever is the printfile-style sleeves. Which are also fairly cheap.

WolfTales · Aug 17, 2009

You need to give the film rep the secret hand shake. Then he/she will know.

Stock Dektol · Aug 17, 2009

BetterSense said:
I also what to know where I can buy these superior negative sleeves because all I've ever seen at camera shops or Freestyle photo or whatever is the printfile-style sleeves. Which are also fairly cheap.

The website I posted describes that they fold lock sleeves should be used in conjunction with the printfiles.

jeffreyg · Aug 17, 2009

Film and negative protective enclosures from Light Impressions. I have used their products for thirty years with no problems. Also a good source for mat board and sectional frames.

clayne · Aug 17, 2009

Light Impressions, Printfile, Archival Methods, etc. they all sell the same polyester fold-locks.

Stock Dektol said:
Hey guys:

I think I found a source for the proper negative "fold lock" sleeves. They are made by clearfile. They fit into the negative sleeves we already have-- which is no doubt good.

Clayne-- This is what your talking about, right? These show that they hold six frame strips yet the actual sleeves only hold 5 frames-- how does that work?

http://www.archivalusa.com/fff35.html

That's the same general design, yes. The sleeves are all designed for 6 frames. Where did you see the 5-frame reference? If you mean your sleeves (the page-size ones) only handle 5-frame width, then you'll need to get new album sleeves.

Personally I've moved away from album sleeves and use archival envelopes and boxes now, along with the polyester fold-locks. I find the handling, storage, and organization to be easier in a way.

One thing about the fold-locks is that you should use cotton gloves or another form of protection as you'll need to keep the poly from springing closed when you remove or insert a negative. This usually requires two hands. Once it's in, the sleeves are quite durable.

John Shriver · Aug 17, 2009

It's not that the pages are scratching the film. It's that they generate lots of static sliding the film in and out, and that attracts dust.

clayne · Aug 17, 2009

John Shriver said:
It's not that the pages are scratching the film. It's that they generate lots of static sliding the film in and out, and that attracts dust.

Actually, the dust and grit attracted by it is one thing, but it's still scratching the film due to abrasion. Polyethylene is not so soft that the dust scratches it before the film. The film always ends up with damage unless one is lucky.

dancqu · Aug 18, 2009

Savage Glassine

Stock Dektol said:
What brands of negative storage do you guys recommend.

Savage. I used their glassine sleeves in the 50s and use
them today. Via Google search for, savage glassine. Dan

Tref Hopkins · Aug 18, 2009

Yups, sadly polyester neg pages can scratch film, and I recall actually being warned about this years ago.

I take a slightly odd approach that I picked up from my mentor; standard cooking negs go in pages, partly for filing, partly for contactabillity. And yes, I tend to use polyester for this.

Individual strips with negs that I class as important these days live loosely stacked in archival neg-paper envelopes, in archival card boxes, with regularly monitored silica gel sachets. These are negs that I would not want to take any damage, although some have had much rougher treatment. One of my favourites that I actually produced as a student spent a few months lost... in my sock drawer. And yes, I had a bedroom darkroom at college...

While time consuming, it's perfectly feasible to assemble loose strips of neg on paper under glass for contacting. Print-through neg bags just make life easier. There are frames specifically to hold a 135-36 in sixes or 120-12 in fours by the rebates on an 8x10. Obviously, the extra handling increases damage potential!

lawrenceimpey · Aug 19, 2009

Stock Dektol said:
This is terrible!

I can't believe this. What brands of negative storage do you guys recommend. I actually have an unused patterson "negative file 35" system which seems to use some sort of glassine. Sort of like wax paper. Would this be adequate? Any links to resources to obtain the safer sleeves? I'll do anything to protect my images!

The Paterson glassine sleves are fine. I used them for years till I discovered (in the UK) the Kenro sleeves, which are also fine but see-through. The ones I have used that scratch film are the Secol sleeves, which are supposedly archival and are rather expensive. However, they are quite hard compared to the rather flimsy Kenro sleeves and this may be the reason.

Negative files CAUSING scratches?

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