Negative Care

Hi,

Once you've got a clean dry negative in hand - What's the best way to store it? Can one store it in a sleeve which is scannable? Can one wet a dry negative again to keep it clean?

Thanks in advance,
Ashok
(New at film, still at negative stage ...)

There are some negative files made in the US Printfile that you can contact print through, not sure about scanning.

If you store the negatives properly you never need to clean them. A negative can be rewashed with care if it's in a bad state.

Ian

the main thing about keeping negatives safe is to protect them from the elements, I do not like any plastics and use paper envelopes, there are bunch of different sizes.

I like the Printfile sleeves, they are archival and make the negs easy to store in a binder, the slots are wider than some other brands which makes getting the negs in and out easier. You can scan through them, but only for proofing, as any scratches or dust on the plastic will show up.
Printfile also makes pages that can accept negs in glassine or tubular sleeves if you want extra protection.

I like the mylar sleeves that fold open. I store these in paper envelopes. Since I moved to this I system I haven't had scratches related to sleeving my negatives. I frequently would find scratches from the printfile sleeves. Light Impressions and Archival Methods sell similar systems. http://www.archivalmethods.com/Product.cfm?categoryid=2&Productid=93

Do not wash your negatives with water. Use a film cleaner like Pec 12 and the Pec Pads. Soft brushes and compressed air can be used to remove dust.

For high quality scanning and printing you will need to remove the film from the sleeve. This is why i like the sleeves which fold open - no rub points with the film where trapped dust can scratch.

I cut the flaps off of the mylar folders, drop the negative in and then slide the combination in the appropriate Print File sleeve which is kept in an archival binder of some sort. This reduces the chance of scratches considerably and reduces chances of damage from the atmosphere.

Well, apart from the good suggestions of the use of archival transparent sleeves, you may find this entertaining to watch :

Murder on the screen

Especially the last note:

"Every time you handle film, better figure it is is a matter of life and death, because it is. Get a little careless, and we maybe after you for the murder on the screen".

Although it is about cine film, it still has some limited value for handling still film, although I have not heard of people "lubricating" their still film

Marco

Thanks everyone. Archivalmethods has some interesting things. I've been using Printfile so far, but now I'm progressing to a level where I'll shoot my ideas and I'm concerned about removal of negatives, scanning them and placing them back. Whatever I try they will get some damage, so I'm wondering can I "teflon" them in some way? There's got to be a way. I thought about rewashing them (especially the 4by5 they seem so tough).

ashokgoyal42 said:

Whatever I try they will get some damage, so I'm wondering can I "teflon" them in some way? There's got to be a way. I thought about rewashing them (especially the 4by5 they seem so tough).

Click to expand...

I think being careful, will get you a long way into preventing scratches.

Anyway, if you do watch that movie I linked too, they talk about "lubricating" film on its emulsion side with an almost instantly drying "wax" solution, as a means to protect the film from scratching. They call it "Hercules B16 synthetic wax" in the film (0.1 gram to 100 grams of solvent, don't know what solvent, it is not said). I don't know how "archival" that is, and if it is of any use to protect still film, nor if anyone uses it.

Here is a detailed description of that Pec12 Gebhard referred to, to clean film:

http://www.photosol.com/documents/pec_info102807.doc

A big warning: it seems unsuitable for color film, according the document (chromogenic film they call it).

Marco

Marco,
The document mentions "chromogenic" films which are b/w C41 type.

It states Pec 12 is fine for most silver based b/w emulsions, C41 color material and also most E6 materials but warns some Velvia emulsions may NOT be compatible.

It also warns not to use Pec 12 with albumen, dye transfer matrix film, Polachrome and hand coated home made emulsions.

Thanks for that link. I've used Pec 12 in the past and it is infomative.

brucemuir said:

It states Pec 12 is fine for most silver based b/w emulsions, C41 color material and also most E6 materials but warns some Velvia emulsions may NOT be compatible.

Click to expand...

This puzzles me... What is the difference between chromogenic C41 B/W film, and C41 color material, that makes the former unsuitable, and the latter suitable for use with PEC 12 :confused:

Both go through the same process, so resulting in what I assume are similar dyes, just with different resulting contrast and / or color layer composition, so as to allow proper BW printing of the negs in case of the chromogenic C41 BW film. So why would one be good, and the other not in combination with PEC 12???

Is there anyone who has something useful to say about this?

Marco B said:

I think being careful, will get you a long way into preventing scratches.


Here is a detailed description of that Pec12 Gebhard referred to, to clean film:


Marco

Click to expand...

Marco, Thanks for that link.
Ashok

Michael R 1974 said:

I tried Pec 12 two times on B&W negatives. Ruined both negatives.

Click to expand...

Were they chromogenic, or true BW silver negatives?

In addition, if you read the document, they clearly state you need to be careful of overdosing, as it may leave a foggy deposit, that can however be removed by applying Pec again more carefully. In addition, they recommend the special cleaning pads to be used.

The Pec Pads w/ Pec 12 was introduced into my analogue workflow from the very beginning when I took the photo program at the local Community College.

I suspect there was already some dust or grit on Michael's film because I've never suffered any scratches.

We were taught to clean the negs with a drop or 2 on a Pec Pad before loading in the enlarger and I'll admit it helped get spot free prints.

I don't use it all the time now because it's rather expensive to put it mildly.
I've also used it when sc*nning negs for proofs.

All my film goes IMMEDIATELY into printfiles from the drying cabinet (shower)
A blast of canned air will usually do it but there always seems to be one speck on your print if you don't use the Pec treatment right before loading into the neg carrier.

I wouldn't use the Pec treatment routinly, only when there is a smudge/fingerprint or some other stuff on the neg that can't be blown off with air or a brush.
Doing the least possibe cleaning/touching of the neg is the way to go.

Marco B said:

Well, apart from the good suggestions of the use of archival transparent sleeves, you may find this entertaining to watch :

Murder on the screen

Especially the last note:

"Every time you handle film, better figure it is is a matter of life and death, because it is. Get a little careless, and we maybe after you for the murder on the screen".

Although it is about cine film, it still has some limited value for handling still film, although I have not heard of people "lubricating" their still film

Marco

Click to expand...

Marco,

That old movie is a classic! Just about everything in it is as true today as it was when the film was made.

One small point, though. It refers mainly to 16mm prints intended for projection on TV. Most of what they talk about applies to theater projection as much as it applies to television broadcast but you have to filter for the difference.

The wax lubricant they refer to is probably paraffin or some synthetic wax dissolved in trichloroethane. That was a common lubricant before trichloroethane was banned.

I wouldn't use anything like that on still film. Not because it might damage the film. It will leave a visible residue on the film. In movie projection that kind of thing will not be seen but, in still projection, it will stick out like a sore thumb.

Although common sense tells us that motion picture projection is just a series of discrete events in rapid sequence, the film is always in constant motion, even when it is supposed to be still in the projection gate. As the shutter opens, the light hits the film which causes it to flex as it is rapidly heated. Thus, a motion picture is a very dynamic process with the film constantly fluttering in and out of focus. It is the brain's ability to filter out all that "chaff" which helps create the illusion of motion.

Long story short... The eye/brain does not see any streaking or mottling of the image in motion picture projection while it would be very noticeable in still photography.

I am in the camp of "keep your film clean in the first place and you won't have to clean it so much."

Yes, there is value in using film cleaners like PEC-12 or other things. I keep some of them on hand in my projection booth and in my darkroom but they are something to be used to clean film after an accident or if I have an extra special photograph that needs to be "just perfect."

However, I still believe that handling film carefully is the first line of defense.

Ditto on the Archival Methods mylar sleeves. I've liked them a lot more than the print file sleeves I used to use, other than the price.