Need suggestions for cooling off Ilford MG4 paper

[CE_Chgo]

I was using Ilford MG-IV paper w/ the Harman Cooltone Developer and loved the look of that combination. It gave me my desired tonal color for that paper. Now that Cooltone has been discontinued, I find MG-IV to not be a neutral tone paper, but a bit too warm for my taste. I'm using Edwal Ultra Black diluted 1:7 or LPD 1:2, and the midtones exhibit a Brown-ish or Red-ish color rather than the more neutral/Silver color I am looking for. Kodak PolyMax Fine Art was my previous favorite paper from a tonal standpoint.

Any suggestions to get the tone I'm looking for?

 

[jim appleyard]

You could try doing a homebrew of one of the colder devs that Anchell describes in "The Darkroom Cookbook".

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Ice cubes?

Da-da-da-bump!

Use a (relative) lot of benzatriazole. Works the opposite of bromide.

 

[Trevor Crone]

If you can't get the result through development try gold toning.

 

[CE_Chgo]

Da-da-da-bump!

Use a (relative) lot of benzatriazole. Works the opposite of bromide.

The ice-cube suggestion w/ drum sound is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Paul. Do you have any suggestions for a starting point for the benzatriazole? If I'm using 50-60 oz of developing liquid (including dilution), where would be a good place to start experimenting? Or, what type of ratio and what should that ratio be based on? Concentrate developer amount, or diluted developer amount.

I should own the Darkroom Cookbook, and plan on purchasing it soon.

Thanks again for any guidance.

 

[jim appleyard]

If you can't get the result through development try gold toning.

Yup, and if you really want cold, try blue toner!

 

[eclarke]

15 cc of benzotriazole 1% solution per 1L of developer. Go up cautiously..Evan Clarke

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Yup

15 cc of benzotriazole 1% solution per 1L of developer. Go up cautiously..Evan Clarke

It's a lot easier to add more than filter those molecules out!

 

[tim rudman]

I should own the Darkroom Cookbook, and plan on purchasing it soon.

Thanks again for any guidance.

Might be worth holding on a bit. There is a new one on the way.
Tim

 

[hansformat]

I also have been dealing with this issue. I am using MG IV Fiber, think the paper is really very good, but compared to the old Forte PolyGrade V the Ilford is just not cool enough for me.

I use Edwal UB 1:7. I have experimented with Selenium with positive results...
1:10 for 10 minutes results in purply blacks which I don't like.
1:10 for 8 minutes is still a bit purply.
1:10 for 6 minutes is better...but I think still not quite right. I might try 5 minutes at this dilution.
1:20 for 10 minutes cools it a bit and deepens dmax slightly but still might be a bit too warm. I am considering trying 1:19 at this time length.
As you can tell I am really playing at the margins here and comparisons are not so easy.

The characteristics of the paper in my view make it difficult to look more like the Forte...nonetheless it has a definite charm of its own that I am getting more used to it. Even if I find a cold tone solution I will keep using Ilford for some images. I also like its resistance to toning...it makes it very easy to control in the toner. So far I am using selenium and sepia and both give good results with this paper if you have a bit of patience.

I am also going to try Slavich coldtone in the next few weeks...it is sitting in my darkroom I just need time for a session.

 

[kevs]

Hi CE_Chgo,

Multigrade IV FB responds subtly to selenium; the original warm-ish image cools tone off to very subtle blue. That's why it's difficult to split-tone if you use selenium first - it's almost impossible to find the 'snatch-point'.

I've used the Fotospeed selenium product; how that varies from the Kodak, or other similar products, I don't know. I've *never* acheived purple-ish tones with Multigrade IV papers in selenium. Give it about ten minutes, checking it against a similar untoned print in a dish of water.

Another paper I found reacted similarly was Kentmere Fineprint VC, although there's no discernible change in selenium IIRC.