Need some advice............Graded RC paper?

JW PHOTO · Apr 8, 2014

I need a little advice on buying a "good" graded RC paper to start my grandbabies out on. I'm refinishing an old Leitz Focomat 1b autofocus enlarger and setting up a darkroom at my cottage for the kids. There is always one or two or maybe all eight up there most of the summer and it would be an ideal place to let them learn the basics. I want graded paper and thought RC would be better for them to learn on. My plan is for 100 sheets of 8x10 grade #2 and 25 or so of 8x10 grade #3. Might also get a pack of 11x14 just in case they have something special they want to print big. I haven't messed with Graded paper for 30 or more years and most of the stuff I used back then is long gone. I'm looking for a "good" paper that isn't going to cost Gramps a whole lot, but will give them some decent prints to show mom and dad. Any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks. JW

Tom1956 · Apr 8, 2014

thread marked.

ic-racer · Apr 8, 2014

Why don't you want multigrade paper? It is less expensive and you will probably get better results if they are using rollfilm, vs sheetfilm with individualized processing.

JW PHOTO · Apr 8, 2014

ic-racer said:
Why don't you want multigrade paper? It is less expensive and you will probably get better results if they are using rollfilm, vs sheetfilm with individualized processing.

Good question! I want to start them out with grade paper to show them that their exposure settings and development scheme are not just a hit or miss things. Going the same way I was taught, grey card and the whole ball of wax. We will branch out from there, but that's where I want to start. Much less variables to begin with for their little minds. I will have one developer for normal scenes and a two-bath for higher contrast. I'll let them thing about how the lighting was and they can decide which to use. I'll be with them when they shoot and develop so I will pretty much know what went on through the whole process. Also, I wouldn't think Graded RC paper would be that much more expensive? It doesn't seem like it from what I have checked on anyway. I want RC for ease of use and drying flat/fast for them. If things get to complicated between tripping the shutter and holding the print in their little hands I'll lose them to the TV and video games. JW

winger · Apr 9, 2014

I agree with using RC, but I really think multigrade is the way to go. Since the grade is determined by the filter, just leave the #2 in most of the time to start. I first printed in high school in the 80s and I've never used graded paper. I didn't totally grasp all the nuances of multigrade until later, but I don't feel at all like I was held back by using it. I got decent prints right away (which only now seem to need more work).

Tom1956 · Apr 9, 2014

I wish all paper was graded paper,just like the olden days when I first started. Of course in the early 70's Polycontrast was out there, but was exotic. I didn't care for it.

chip j · Apr 9, 2014

Try freestylephoto.biz

Jeff Kubach · Apr 9, 2014

chip j said:
Try freestylephoto.biz

+1 or maybe B&H

Jeff

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

Tom1956 said:
I wish all paper was graded paper,just like the olden days when I first started. Of course in the early 70's Polycontrast was out there, but was exotic. I didn't care for it.

I agree Tom and we still had pretty good control over the final print. You had Dektol, Selectol(soft) Beer's and many other paper developers. Plus, and little burning or dodging thrown in help too. I tried some variable-contrast papers back in the late 70's and early 80's, but they didn't do what my old Ilfobrom graded would do. I guess I just got used to playing with graded papers back then and I'd still have no problem if that's all there was now. Funny how those old farts like Weston, Adams and others could print so well on graded papers and we seem to have to have those fancy VC papers now. I have to confess that I'd like to get back to playing with the graded papers myself, just for old times sake. Sometimes it does us good to take a step backward now and again. Heck, isn't that what we're doing every time we load a sheet film holder or stick a roll of film in a camera? JW

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

Jeff Kubach said:
+1 or maybe B&H

Jeff

Yes, Freestyle, Adorama and B&H has it, but my question is are there any folks that use "graded RC" and which is a good one to start the kids on. JW

Dr Croubie · Apr 9, 2014

winger said:
I agree with using RC, but I really think multigrade is the way to go. Since the grade is determined by the filter, just leave the #2 in most of the time to start.

That's what I was also going to suggest. Just leave the filter in, don't mention it, hide the others, don't even tell them that it's VC/MG paper (or even tell them what MG/VC is if they don't already know), then if and when you want to teach them higher/lower/split grade printing, you've got all the stuff there.

Meanwhile, just checking Freestyle, you can get 25 sheets of Arista EDU VC 8x10s for $16, or $20 in Grade #2, looks like VC/MG is cheaper across the board...

Roger Cole · Apr 9, 2014

winger said:
I agree with using RC, but I really think multigrade is the way to go. Since the grade is determined by the filter, just leave the #2 in most of the time to start. I first printed in high school in the 80s and I've never used graded paper. I didn't totally grasp all the nuances of multigrade until later, but I don't feel at all like I was held back by using it. I got decent prints right away (which only now seem to need more work).

I have to agree with this. You're going to get them grade 2 and 3. Just get them multigrade paper and, if you really want to be strict about it, only give them grade 2 and 3 filters, maybe a 2.5. That's actually easier and less complicate than messing around with two developers too.

But if you must, Freestyle sells their Arista EDU Ultra paper in RC, grades 2 and 3.

Rich Ullsmith · Apr 9, 2014

Bless your soul for building a darkroom and fretting over the type of paper for the grandkiddies.

If the grandkiddies are anywhere near the ballpark of 21 years of age, tap a keg through the wall and leave them to their own devices.

Xmas · Apr 9, 2014

winger said:
I agree with using RC, but I really think multigrade is the way to go. Since the grade is determined by the filter, just leave the #2 in most of the time to start. I first printed in high school in the 80s and I've never used graded paper. I didn't totally grasp all the nuances of multigrade until later, but I don't feel at all like I was held back by using it. I got decent prints right away (which only now seem to need more work).

Hi Bethe

Yea swapping filters is no different from swapping boxes of paper.
But if you are starting smaller paper (RC) sizes is easier even if only for size of white spots.
With eight people in a print room lots of switching on of white light with box or drawer open... I only have safe lights in dry room.
I even understood your 'need more work'...
It is hard teaching what a grade2 neg is.
Only a few kids are interested any more but that was true in our day too. Id be happy for one from 8.
My confession is I started with a 6x9 contact print frame and printed all my parents neg archive, it was some time before I discovered what the #2 was...

Noel

removed account4 · Apr 9, 2014

graded rc papers?
agfa made the last one i used ( 20 years ago )
i think its gonna be slim pickin's these days ...

( added later )
it looks like you are in luck, ilford makes graded RC paper!

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

Yes, I knew it wouldn't be easy going the graded paper route, but that's how I wanted to start. Also, the old Leitz 1b Focotar enlarger I'm fixing up has no under-the-lens filter holder or above/light source filter drawer. I suppose I could take off the top light source and put a grade #2 filter over the condenser. Why is it that I always try to do things the simple, easy way and it always ends up being harder and more difficult than I thought. I do know it sure is easier getting any kind of VC paper that's for sure. JW
Rich, the oldest one is 18 so I have three more years for the kegger line to the darkroom. Legally anyway!

Simon R Galley · Apr 9, 2014

Dear JW Photo.....

I too started printing on ILFORD Ilfospeed RC paper in 1976......and guess what... we are still making it and I now I work for ILFORD as well !!!!

ILFORD Ilfospeed RC Grade 1 , 2 and 3 in Gloss and Pearl available in loads of sizes please see our
PAL ( product availability list ) on our website.

Printing on graded RC is not a bad way to learn, but I have to agree Varible Contrast is very easy and of course if the negs your grand offspring produce are a little up or down they have that bit more flexibility, in saying that PM me your home address I will send you the MULTIGRADE printing manual ( its the same process for all papers, not just ILFORD ) and they have the added benefit of reading something as opposed to having an 'app' for that !

And now its actually come full circle, I only print on graded FB ILFORD Ilfobrom Galerie.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

RPippin · Apr 9, 2014

I've been teaching a film class at my workspace and darkroom using RC graded paper from Freestyle. I also used VC paper to demonstrate the use of filters. The consensus from the students is that graded paper was the preference. Have at it and don't worry about availability. The argument about availability of film and paper has been going on since day one, and shouldn't discourage anyone from going forward with what suits your needs at the present. For the record, I so use VC paper, fiber based for a lot of my work, but if I had my druthers I'd print only on graded paper. Good luck and congratulations on your efforts.

ROL · Apr 9, 2014

JW PHOTO said:
Funny how those old farts like Weston, Adams and others could print so well on graded papers and we seem to have to have those fancy VC papers now.

Yes. Ha. Ha. Indeed. What's this 'we' stuff? (intentional posterior expelling of sulfurous gas aimed at you)

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
Dear JW Photo.....

I too started printing on ILFORD Ilfospeed RC paper in 1976......and guess what... we are still making it and I now I work for ILFORD as well !!!!

ILFORD Ilfospeed RC Grade 1 , 2 and 3 in Gloss and Pearl available in loads of sizes please see our
PAL ( product availability list ) on our website.

Printing on graded RC is not a bad way to learn, but I have to agree Varible Contrast is very easy and of course if the negs your grand offspring produce are a little up or down they have that bit more flexibility, in saying that PM me your home address I will send you the MULTIGRADE printing manual ( its the same process for all papers, not just ILFORD ) and they have the added benefit of reading something as opposed to having an 'app' for that !

And now its actually come full circle, I only print on graded FB ILFORD Ilfobrom Galerie.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thanks Simon and I'll PM you. When I took my College course it was Kodak HC110 and Tri-X printed on Ilfobrom #2 developed in Dektol. That was the standard everyone was to go by. Some cheated on developers, but never cheated on the printing paper. The instructor also told use that if we had an exceptional shot he had some Galerie he'd let us use. Of course I never had that "exceptional" shot, but I did use Galerie after I finished the class. I thought using Galerie would make me another Ansel Adams. Well, obviously that didn't happen since I'm still scraping pennies to buy paper and supplies. I still think that Galerie and the early Oriental Seagull papers were the best I had ever used. Thanks again Simon, JW

Tom1956 · Apr 9, 2014

Ilfobrom--the BEST! Ilfobrom #2 unferrotyped F surface. I sure miss it.

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

RPippin said:
I've been teaching a film class at my workspace and darkroom using RC graded paper from Freestyle. I also used VC paper to demonstrate the use of filters. The consensus from the students is that graded paper was the preference. Have at it and don't worry about availability. The argument about availability of film and paper has been going on since day one, and shouldn't discourage anyone from going forward with what suits your needs at the present. For the record, I so use VC paper, fiber based for a lot of my work, but if I had my druthers I'd print only on graded paper. Good luck and congratulations on your efforts.

I feel exactly the same way, but we're in the minority now. Sure, VC paper is easier to adjust, but is it really better? I had no complaints when all I had to use was graded paper and just learned how to use it. JW

JW PHOTO · Apr 9, 2014

Tom1956 said:
Ilfobrom--the BEST! Ilfobrom #2 unferrotyped F surface. I sure miss it.

Yup, that was some good stuff and it didn't bankrupt you to buy a 100 sheet box either. JW

Tom1956 · Apr 9, 2014

JW PHOTO said:
I feel exactly the same way, but we're in the minority now. Sure, VC paper is easier to adjust, but is it really better? I had no complaints when all I had to use was graded paper and just learned how to use it. JW

Me either. Not a complaint in this world.

fretlessdavis · Apr 9, 2014

No mention of Kentmere Kenthene yet?

I really like the stuff. Looks nicer than the MGIV RC and the Kentmere VC Papers. Really cool tonality, bright base, good dmax. I still like the simplicity of graded, and it's fantastic for sheet film work. Also excellent for contact sheets, too. It tones better than the MG RC stuff, too, so it's been good for me learning toning.

Last time I bought it it was pretty darn cheap, too. $50 per $100, and B&H can get it for you in grades 2-4.

Need some advice............Graded RC paper?

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