Need Electrician Help - using US equipment in UK

polaroid_memories · Apr 24, 2016

Hi guys,

Just wanted to see if there are any known Professional Electricians here on the forum that I could ask a couple questions to? I have specialist questions regarding finding a solution (be that a transformer / converter or something more) to using US power packs which source power from UK mains power...

If anyone knows of or has had interaction with any electricians on the forum please help me out in finding them.

Cheers all

(PS - apologies if I have mis-posted this in the wrong sub-forum)

bdial · Apr 24, 2016

What devices are you looking to power?

calebarchie · Apr 24, 2016

Hardly a specialist question
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bronson-VT..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=DAVKZR1FR2PVCM4AZG9T

But you should check the specific power reqs of the devices you are trying to run first.

Chan Tran · Apr 24, 2016

It depends on the requirements of the device you want to power. The transformer can only step down the voltage in the UK to 120VAC in the US. The transformer can not change the frequency of the AC power so that it's still 50Hz. If the equipment requires 60Hz then it won't work although that most do not have such a requirement.

polaroid_memories · Apr 25, 2016

I have acquired two Speedotron 4803 packs and four 105 lights, two 2 cable and two 4 cable heads from the states. I have been looking at getting a couple of these to place in my studio to plug the power packs into: https://www.beststuff.co.uk/store/goldsource-st-5000-5000-watt-step-down-up-voltage-converter.htm
As the packs have a maximum of 4800 ws output, and a varying frequency of 50-60Hz I was hoping that this sort of converter/transformer would work just fine.

Chan Tran · Apr 25, 2016

I check the manual and don't see the power requirements. Any way if it's supposed to plug in a US household outlet then it's no more than 1500W or so. The ws rating does not relate directly to the power it requires.

polaroid_memories · Apr 25, 2016

Chan Tran said:
I check the manual and don't see the power requirements. Any way if it's supposed to plug in a US household outlet then it's no more than 1500W or so. The ws rating does not relate directly to the power it requires.

Now that is very interesting! I just naively assumed watt-seconds directly related to watts. So how are they related? Do you know of any resources where one could find out? Like you say, if these packs are able to be used directly plugged into US mains power, then as long as I can replicate that then I should be sorted.

wiltw · Apr 25, 2016

polaroid_memories said:
Now that is very interesting! I just naively assumed watt-seconds directly related to watts. So how are they related? Do you know of any resources where one could find out? Like you say, if these packs are able to be used directly plugged into US mains power, then as long as I can replicate that then I should be sorted.

WATTS is a measure only of the electricity INPUT supply requirements of the flash unit, the steady state demand from the wall outlet during charging of the power capacitor (1500W / 120v = 12.5 Amps); if the unit could take 240v input, its Amps drawn from the wall during recycle would be lowered (1500W / 240 = 6.25 Amps)
Watt-seconds is a measure of the supply of electricity into the flashtube which is already stored in the power capacitor and the rate of time for which it is supplied to the flash tube.
Light output (lumens) is a measure of the intensity of light over a defined duration, which has NO direct relationship to #1 or #2
that is, two 1000 w-s power packs can output very different intensity of light as measure by a flash meter, in spite of similar watt-seconds ratings

Similarly, if you look at the Lumen rating on the packaging of standard 60W incandescent bulbs, the conversion of electricity (60W) to light (lumens) is NOT AT ALL directly related.

Chan Tran · Apr 25, 2016

Let make some assumption that the unit is 100% efficient and what comes in comes out to the flash tube. Example if the flash is rated at 1000Ws then it can dump 1000W into the flash tube for 1 sec per charge. Typically it's 1/1000 sec so it dumps 1 megawatt for 1/1000 second into the flash tube. However after it dumps the load it would takes several seconds for it to charge up the capacitor again. So if it takes 10 sec for the recycling time it will consumes on the average of 100W. However in reality it would consumes a lot more power at the start of the recharging cycle and then tapper off as the capacitor getting full.

polaroid_memories · Apr 27, 2016

This is all very interesting and gives me a good direction of where to be heading, so thank you all for your responses. Admittedly I have very little knowledge of electrical matters, I understand how to achieve the end result and how to get there by means of compiling the right kit, but get a little lost and fazed when it comes to this sort of thing, that if i get wrong, could blow up my equipment or worse, cause me serious harm...

So in order for me to be able to use one 4800ws pack (which will be powering two lights with 2400ws of power going into each), how can I nail down what sort of step down converter/transformer I will need to enable usage of this setup? What wattage output should I be looking for a converter to have?

As already mentioned, the manual of the 4803 power pack doesn't explicitly say what the required amount of power the supply to the pack should have, so will it be safe to take a chance that as long as i can replicate the power output of US mains power then everything should work ok?
Even I know its easy enough to get a converter to step down UK mains power from 220-240V down to US specs of 110-120V, and the pack will take a frequency of 50-60Hz so there should be no issue there, but its the amount of power flowing into the power pack which is why a professional converter/transformer box is needed, and I don't know what wattage/size/capacity a converter/transformer box I need to get. If anyone could help me find a way of taking the power pack specs and the light(s) specs to discern what is required of a converter, and what size/capacity I need then I would be very grateful. Even if there is a resource online where I could go to figure out the details that would be very helpful too... I just want to find out how 4800WS can equate to X amount of watts needed, and then I can get a converter to cater for that. Is that the main factor I need to consider?

Thanks again all

Steve Smith · Apr 27, 2016

Hopefully, there is a fuse on the unit. If so, it should be labeled with a current rating. Multiply that by 110 and you will have the maximum power the unit can use in watts before the fuse blows. It cannot draw any more power than that. In reality, it is likely to be about half of that.

e.g. If it has an 8A fuse, that would be 880 watts so a 1kW transformer would be more than adequate.

Steve.

MattKing · Apr 27, 2016

polaroid_memories said:
I just want to find out how 4800WS can equate to X amount of watts needed, and then I can get a converter to cater for that. Is that the main factor I need to consider?

It has nothing to do with the watt-second rating. It has everything to do with how much power the unit draws from the "mains".

Does the power pack have a plate showing power numbers and/or information about a fuse?

CropDusterMan · Apr 27, 2016

polaroid_memories said:
I have acquired two Speedotron 4803 packs and four 105 lights, two 2 cable and two 4 cable heads from the states.

Hey, weren't you the one who was going to do the LF wet-plate photos of the skateboarding?...you needed a short flash duration and a shit-ton of output?

If so, I'm glad you finally found some Speedos and Quads and look forward to seeing your work!

M Carter · Apr 27, 2016

Give Speedotron a call. They've been easy to get hold of in my experience.

wiltw · Apr 28, 2016

In the issue of 50Hz vs. 60Hz, I can only see a problem when the circultry is dependent upon the line frequency for timing purposes...like the number of lines scanned in a TV vs. the frame rate, or line frequency driven linear motors.

In a strobe there is a necessary conversion of AC voltage to DC voltage so it can be stored within the power capacitor, and later discharged from the power capacitor into the flash tube.
LED status indicators on the flash do not care if they flash 50 times per second rather than 60 times per second, when they are lit.
There are no AC motors to be dependent upon line frequency.

For digital circuitry, some rectifier took the incoming AC voltage and output 5VDC and 12VDC, regardless if the incoming voltage were 100VAC - 240VAC, and that is generally not going to be a problem.

An issue might be that the components within the strobe are designed for lower voltage in an analog portion of the circuitry, and are stressed too much...120V gets converted in a transformer to 500V, but 240V gets converted by the same transformer to 1000V and some 600V rated component blows! But by using an external transformer to take 240VAC down to 120VAC, it is once again kosher for that analog circuitry to operate without issue (ignoring the line frequency and timing issues mentioned at the start).
Taking a 240V rated product down to 120V has less issue of voltage overating, but the 2x amperage might cause issue due to greater generation of heat with higher current flow. With the proper design, it is perhaps simple to get a unit to run in a lower AC voltage environment without issue and without an external transformer to condition the input voltage supplied to the unit.

JOR · Apr 28, 2016

M Carter said:
Give Speedotron a call. They've been easy to get hold of in my experience.

Assuming that the voltage has been correctly adjusted, components intended for 60Hz supplies (i.e. not labeled 50/60Hz) will be stressed when operated at 50Hz. The current will be significantly higher and the running temperature may rise above the safe value. A small shaded-pole fan motor will get very hot, possibly blowing the overtemperature cutout and the transformer that provides the charging current may overheat when cycled fast without a pause (Speedotron 'Black Line'). The manufacturer will know whether there will be problems and may be able to recommend a workaround.

polaroid_memories · Apr 28, 2016

M Carter said:
Give Speedotron a call. They've been easy to get hold of in my experience.

I was deliberating that, see what they could tell me on the record regarding their power packs.

As far as the frequency is concerned, the packs I have have a label of "50-60Hz" on them, so I assume either or anywhere in between should work fine...

There is a lot of info in your guys great responses so I will thoroughly go through them and reply in turn after some research based on your replies - thanks again all.

M Carter · Apr 30, 2016

Speedo sells plenty of gear in Europe, and I'd guess it's likely they'd want to change as few components as possible for that market. They should be able to tell you if something that's essentially a heavier-duty travel converter (just bringing the voltage down before it hits the pack) would do, or if there are internal mods needed. I have Speedo packs that are fairly new, and some that were likely manufactured in the 70's, so there may be parts variances based on the manufacture era as well.

Another source of info would be a Speedo repair shop in the country you're using them. A good repair guy should know what's in the internal powering chain and it wouldn't be a stretch to think they've modded packs for local use?

Steve Smith · May 9, 2016

M Carter said:
Speedo sells plenty of gear in Europe, and I'd guess it's likely they'd want to change as few components as possible for that market.

If it has a switch mode power supply which runs from rectified mains, the only difference can be as simple as the presence or absence of a link in the rectifier circuit.

For 230v it works as a standard full wave rectifier, for 110v it works as a voltage doubler circuit.

Steve.

Ces1um · Mar 26, 2018

polaroid_memories said:
Hi guys,

Just wanted to see if there are any known Professional Electricians here on the forum that I could ask a couple questions to? I have specialist questions regarding finding a solution (be that a transformer / converter or something more) to using US power packs which source power from UK mains power...

If anyone knows of or has had interaction with any electricians on the forum please help me out in finding them.

Cheers all

(PS - apologies if I have mis-posted this in the wrong sub-forum)

Not sure what the actual power demands are, but what about buying in the US a cigarette lighter to normal plug in adapter (I think these top out at 75 watts though). Then in the UK buy one of those car battery booster/power packs. Plug the cigarette lighter/plug in adapter into that (they come with a cigarette lighter socket). That way you get around the whole 50/60hz thing and transformer issue. The only issue I can see is how long the battery pack will run for before being depleted. The one I bought from cdn tire stated you shouldn't charge the battery pack while drawing current from it. Good luck though. I know on youtube a guy named "techmoan" runs into this issue all the time with stereo equipment and he's bought an array of converting equipment.

John51 · Mar 27, 2018

Get professional advice on this before using it but check out the yellow 110v transformers used on building sites. They're beefy as they get a lot of heavy use and have a good output compared to consumer voltage adapters. Maybe the slight drop in voltage will offset the frequency difference?

At the price, they're worth looking into, just in case they're suitable.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-3-3K...003745&hash=item28369dc4b7:g:DG4AAOSwecJaea8Q

jacaquarie · Mar 27, 2018

Let me weigh in. Without knowing the circuit of the power packs. Since the power supply is labeled 50-60Hz (cycles per second ) and knowing equipment like this by it's nature requires the transformer, if I was the manufacture would allow for multiple markets by having the transformer suitable for multiple voltage. This might be as simple as swapping 2 or 4 wires at a input terminal. Without a schematic do not know. . can you share the image of a data plate?

harlequin · Mar 27, 2018

Having blown up a few speedo packs in London, I recommend calling Speedotron directly.

Everything was working fine then we noticed a longer recycling time, then a slight whistling sound
then the Capacitor let out a pop.....Using 4800 w/s unit would only exacerbate that condition IMHO.
Either have it modified, or get some rental Broncolor and or Hensel or Profoto and finish the shoot.....

Speedo makes great equipment, and it is known to be reliable and consistent in the USA.
In other voltage/Hz settings, you are on your own....... with out direct consultation from Speedotron directly.

I have seen first hand in another studio, a Norman P1250 D power pack put on a full 4th of July sparkfest
using one of those 11ov converters.....Please be careful.....4800 w/s is a large discharge arc...

Harlequin

Need Electrician Help - using US equipment in UK

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