Need advice: trimmer or guillotine

Michael Kadillak · Oct 20, 2007

Sparky said:
You must have been using a really poor quality -out of alignment office LEVER cutter or something... Guillotines are by design, and in practice, much higher precision machines capable of cutting far greater thicknesses and quantity of paper than ANY rotary cutter ever designed. That's just the way it is.

I have a quality guillotine cutter that was given to me by a retired professional photographer and it is as good as any made. I though it was the cats ass as well until I used the Rotatrim. And in this regard I will not even arbitrate the contention you make about its cutting abilities. Who cares? The real objective is far more dimensional than that.

I use my Rotatrims to trim prints before mounting. In this regard you simply CANNOT see the critical edge that you want to trim to with precision as you can with the Rotatrim because with the Rotatrim you have a clear plastic edge that shows precisely where the cut will take place (see my comments above about moving this guide to the cutter edge). As a result I can make effortless cuts to the absolute edge of each print leaving zero waste which is simply impossible with the guillotine cutter. The trim with this primitive device is always iterative which results in a small amount of additional edge being removed from the print. As a result there is simply no better tool available for the serious photographer to complete this task.

David H. Bebbington · Oct 20, 2007

Sparky said:
You must have been using a really poor quality -out of alignment office LEVER cutter or something... Guillotines are by design, and in practice, much higher precision machines capable of cutting far greater thicknesses and quantity of paper than ANY rotary cutter ever designed. That's just the way it is.

There may be some confusion here - I and probably others have been advising on the merits of rotary trimmers versus manual guillotines (small portable units in each case). There are of course also industrial guillotines which look like this (example only):
Dead Link Removed
These are indeed much more powerful and are arguably also more CONSISTENTLY precise, since accuracy depends only on placing material against a stop and not on the skill of the operator. I do not think, however, that many people will be paying $5,000 to $35,000 or more for an industrial guillotine for home use!

Regards,

David

Sparky · Oct 20, 2007

Yes - that's precisely the type I was referring to, David. That's why I was trying to clarify in my post that I wasn't referring to the single-sheet office type 'LEVER' cutters - a true guillotine is EXTREMELY precise and can cut 100-500 sheets of DWT photo paper at one go. I think it's an important distinction as none of the rotary trimmers can give a TRULY clean edge. A brand new guillotine is absurdly expensive however - but you can find them second hand for surprisingly little - even for less than a $500 rotary trimmer.

Sparky · Oct 21, 2007

fotch said:
Do you have any proof to offer or is this just your opinion? I am not trying to be antagonistic, just would be interested in real facts if available.

Hi Fotch - see David's post below - in case there is some confusion (apples vs oranges) that we might be talking about. However - if you're talking about the kind of guillotine that one person can move/lift (which I wouldn't call a guillotine - since the blade action is not linear like an actual guillotine) - then I know what you're talking about. However - I'd still take a GOOD QUALITY lever cutter like that (assuming it's well set up) - however a DULL bladed version that is out of alignment is just AWFUL to work on. But so is a rotatrim with a dull blade.

Michael Kadillak · Oct 21, 2007

Sparky said:
Yes - that's precisely the type I was referring to, David. That's why I was trying to clarify in my post that I wasn't referring to the single-sheet office type 'LEVER' cutters - a true guillotine is EXTREMELY precise and can cut 100-500 sheets of DWT photo paper at one go. I think it's an important distinction as none of the rotary trimmers can give a TRULY clean edge. A brand new guillotine is absurdly expensive however - but you can find them second hand for surprisingly little - even for less than a $500 rotary trimmer.

You can purchase a 15" Rotatrim new for $220. A new 24" Rotatrim runs $300 and both will last a lifetime. But lets be real. When does the average photographer really need to cut 100-500 sheets of DW paper at a go?

I don't care how cheap these sell for looking at the size of these machines I appreciate the fact that my Rotatrim is bearly 4" tall and I can hide it under the countertop and can carry it easily around the house if I want to trim in another room. Whatever works.....

resummerfield · Oct 21, 2007

Michael Kadillak said:
.....you simply CANNOT see the critical edge that you want to trim to with precision as you can with the Rotatrim because with the Rotatrim you have a clear plastic edge that shows precisely where the cut will take place (see my comments above about moving this guide to the cutter edge). As a result I can make effortless cuts to the absolute edge of each print leaving zero waste which is simply impossible with the guillotine cutter......

In normal conditions, with overhead lighting, I would agree with you that the Rotatrim is more accurate when properly adjusted. But I can get the most accurate cuts, with both the Rotatrim and the guillotine, when I place them on my light table.

On the guillotine, I have removed all the guards so I can very accurately place the cut-line to the metal table edge. Then I place a clear plastic hold down to secure the paper for accurate cuts.

On the Rotatrim, even after adjusting the plastic hold down as you suggest, I can get more accurate cuts by sighting the cut-line to the metal edge.

Of course, this only works with thin, translucent paper.

pentaxuser · Oct 21, 2007

I am sure someone has probably said this but with cutters, like everything else you get what you pay for. I had a Dahle and was disappointed with it. The wife makes cards(Christmas, birthday etc) and its OK for that kind of imprecise and rough cutting but far from ideal for photographs.

I obtained a Rotatrim type of cutter which was much better but has already required another blade after about a year's use.

The college B&W course I attended had Rotatrims because of constant use by 100s of students and its need for precision and reliability over many years. It should be a once in a lifetime purchase and is likely to pay for itself over a lifetime of photography quite easily.

pentaxuser

Sparky · Oct 21, 2007

Michael Kadillak said:
But lets be real. When does the average photographer really need to cut 100-500 sheets of DW paper at a go?

When a photographer wants to produce an edition of custom sized prints with perfect edges and ensure that the prints are IDENTICALLY sized. It just depends on the application. If you're not doing any commercial work and just noodling around - there's really no need for it. But sometimes there is - and if you REALLY REALLY need to ensure precision and consistency than a 'REAL' guillotine is definitely the way to go. To each their own tool... right?

fotch · Oct 22, 2007

Sparky said:
Hi Fotch - see David's post below - in case there is some confusion (apples vs oranges) that we might be talking about. However - if you're talking about the kind of guillotine that one person can move/lift (which I wouldn't call a guillotine - since the blade action is not linear like an actual guillotine) - then I know what you're talking about. However - I'd still take a GOOD QUALITY lever cutter like that (assuming it's well set up) - however a DULL bladed version that is out of alignment is just AWFUL to work on. But so is a rotatrim with a dull blade.

OK, your talking about what I know as a ream cutter. Had one of those for the print shop in my business. The link refered to in another earlier post states "cuts up to a full ream with great accuracy".

Interestingly, they also sell roto cutters for applications like what is being discussed here. Hey, I respect your opinion as to what you prefer. What ever floats your boat. Me, for the darkroom, to the tune of "Give me a Home"
Give me a roto, for my photo.... ok, not a song writer.

RobertP · Oct 22, 2007

I've used them both guillotines and a rotatrim. I have Ingento cutters 15" 30" and 39" and the rotatrim just collects dust. The Ingento cutter is deadly accurate if you know how to use it.

Removed Account · Oct 22, 2007

My high-quality Nikon cutter does everything I want it to better than your high-quality Canon cutter does everything you want it to!

(please note I shoot MF and LF, so do not actually own any Nikon or Canon gear {not even Nikkor LF lenses, unfortunately}.

- Justin

David H. Bebbington · Oct 22, 2007

cafeharrar said:
My high-quality Nikon cutter does everything I want it to better than your high-quality Canon cutter does everything you want it to!

(please note I shoot MF and LF, so do not actually own any Nikon or Canon gear {not even Nikkor LF lenses, unfortunately}.

- Justin

Excuse me, we're having a serious discussion here about who has the bigger chopper!

Need advice: trimmer or guillotine

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