Need a new (to me) Nikon F4, a few questions

PhotoJim · Oct 25, 2020

CMoore said:
When it came out, what were some of the big selling points of the 4 over the 3.?
Was AF a big deal at that point.?
Thank You

AF was a big deal, although a lot of pros didn't use it right away.

Faster X sync, integrated motor drive, matrix metering, built-in spot meter... I imagine those were pretty compelling. Program mode and shutter priority might have been selling features for some, too, though I suspect most pros used aperture priority or manual mode.

AnselMortensen · Oct 25, 2020

CMoore said:
When it came out, what were some of the big selling points of the 4 over the 3.?
Was AF a big deal at that point.?
Thank You

Not having to take the flash off the camera in order to open the camera back to change film...
Second curtain flash sync with SB-24, SB-25, etc.
Autofocus
Program mode
Shutter Priority Autoexposure,
1/250 sync speed.
Adjustable diopter in prism
Matrix flash metering

CMoore · Oct 25, 2020

PhotoJim said:
AF was a big deal, although a lot of pros didn't use it right away.

Faster X sync, integrated motor drive, matrix metering, built-in spot meter... I imagine those were pretty compelling. Program mode and shutter priority might have been selling features for some, too, though I suspect most pros used aperture priority or manual mode.

AnselMortensen said:
Not having to take the flash off the camera in order to open the camera back to change film...
Second curtain flash sync with SB-24, SB-25, etc.
Autofocus
Program mode
Shutter Priority Autoexposure,
1/250 sync speed.
Adjustable diopter in prism
Matrix flash metering

Thank You Both -
Adjustable Diopter......... THAT seems like a very nice feature. Not just an age thing either. People of all ages have eye sight that varies A LOT

Huss · Oct 26, 2020

CMoore said:
When it came out, what were some of the big selling points of the 4 over the 3.?
Was AF a big deal at that point.?
Thank You

AF, full compatibility with MF lenses, improved build strength, built in motor drive with multiple grip options, multiple metering modes, much better exposure info in vf much better shutter with greater range of speeds etc etc

Colin Corneau · Oct 26, 2020

If I recall, having Matrix metering on any lens you used with the F4 was a big point, as was the TTL flashes for it.

The AF was pretty rudimentary but it was a product of the time and for that era, not too bad.

Colin Corneau · Oct 26, 2020

Colin Corneau said:
If I recall, having Matrix metering on any lens you used with the F4 was a big point, as was the TTL flashes for it.

The AF was pretty rudimentary but it was a product of the time and for that era, not too bad.

...and the faster flash sync was VERY big. How could I forget.

Huss · Oct 26, 2020

Colin Corneau said:
If I recall, having Matrix metering on any lens you used with the F4 was a big point, as was the TTL flashes for it.

The AF was pretty rudimentary but it was a product of the time and for that era, not too bad.

I don't get the criticism that the F4 gets for AF. I also use an F6 and the AF in the F4 is completely fine compared to that. I've never had any issues, and always only use center AF so the F4 having only one spot is ok. Speed is great, accuracy is great.
I don't shoot sports, so that may be an issue I guess, but for the work I do I am extremely happy with it.

If I was told I had to choose between my F4 and my F6 - and couldn't sell them so I couldn't pocket the cash difference - I prefer the F4.

PhotoJim · Oct 26, 2020

The F4 autofocus system's weakness has mostly to do with its relatively poor performance (compared to more modern cameras) at doing focus tracking of moving subjects. I find that save for the absence of a cross sensor, the autofocus is just fine for static subjects, but I rarely shoot action, and don't think I have ever done so with my F4 bodies. (By the time I acquired them, I already had better cameras - F100 and F5 - at capturing motion.)

Colin Corneau · Oct 26, 2020

Jim is right....for portraits and other static subjects, the AF is fine and may well be a boon for people with less than perfect eyesight.

I shot sports for many, many years at a newspaper and the AF on the early cameras wasn't ideal for it. The first camera that really impressed me for fast moving sports like soccer, hockey and basketball was the Nikon F5.

But, wow did I ever like having Matrix metering even on older lenses, a faster flash synch speed...and just the classic old dials etc. on the F4s!! Really wish I'd hung onto that one.

Craig · Oct 26, 2020

Huss said:
I don't get the criticism that the F4 gets for AF. I also use an F6 and the AF in the F4 is completely fine compared to that.

With lenses like the first generation 80-200 F2.8 the AF was very slow because it was the motor in the body moving a big lens. Canon's system when they came out with the EOS 1 a year after the F4 was a big improvement because of the motor in the lens, and the motor could be sized for the lens. Obviously the motor for a 300/2.8 needs to be a lot more powerful than a 50/1.8.

With a big lens the F4's AF wasn't up to the job of following fast moving action like sports.

Huss · Oct 26, 2020

I just pulled out my F4 and checked the focus speed. With the 28-105D it is instantaneous. With the 24-105 VR4 G it is slightly less instantaneous, but still focuses in a blink of an eye. Same thing with my Sigma Art 35 1.4 and 50 1.4
Interestingly in a unlit room with gauzy curtains drawn in the middle of the day, the Art 35 will very briefly go past the point of focus, but still lock, so in that case there is a very slight delay. But in all instances this thing focuses way quicker than any human could focus a manual lens.

Perhaps it was slow with the first gen 80-200 2.8, but with these modern lenses it is as fast as my F6. So it looks like this camera improved with age due to the AF lenses getting better! Of course with the G lenses it can only operate in P or S, and just like the F6 does not work with the latest electronic aperture lenses.

Craig · Oct 26, 2020

The F4 will work with the new silent wave motors and it is quite quick. With the AF lenses that were current when the F4 came out, especially the telephotos it was a different story.

PhotoJim · Oct 26, 2020

Craig said:
The F4 will work with the new silent wave motors and it is quite quick. With the AF lenses that were current when the F4 came out, especially the telephotos it was a different story.

You bet your bottom it will.

It works with nearly everything. Non-AI. AI-converted. AI. AI-S. AF. AF-D. AF-I. AF-S. AF-G (although only in program and shutter priority modes). I seem to recall it even works with the pair of weird autofocus lenses for the F3AF, which won't autofocus on anything else. Alas, it doesn't use the D function nor support VR. But goodness, it's shocking that a camera this old can do this much. And aside from the FA (which had a more primitive AMP metering), it's the only Nikon to do matrix metering with AI and AI-S manual-focus Nikkors.

If a person is only going to own one Nikon body, there are a lot of reasons to make it an F4.

Craig · Oct 26, 2020

PhotoJim said:
it's the only Nikon to do matrix metering with AI and AI-S manual-focus Nikkors.

The F6 will do matrix metering with an AIS lens. I don't have an AI lens to test on it, but I assume it would also work.

PhotoJim · Oct 27, 2020

Craig said:
The F6 will do matrix metering with an AIS lens. I don't have an AI lens to test on it, but I assume it would also work.

Forgot about that one! Never even seen one in person.

It's a lot more money than an F4. (But a better camera, of course.)

Bikerider · Oct 27, 2020

Colin Corneau said:
If I recall, having Matrix metering on any lens you used with the F4 was a big point, as was the TTL flashes for it.

The AF was pretty rudimentary but it was a product of the time and for that era, not too bad.

I have an F4 bought just recently for less than £200. It performs like an F4 should, the exposure.is fine the AF is good and certainly faster that I can focus but there again you don't need hyper speed AF AF for landscapes. I also have an F6 and F100 and of the 3, the F4 seems to be the most positive of them all. It certainly feels more rugged even that the F6 which I would place just in front of the F100 for build. This is my 4th F4 and I wish I had not sold the previous 3 - that would have saved me a lot of money!

Huss · Oct 27, 2020

PhotoJim said:
Forgot about that one! Never even seen one in person.

It's a lot more money than an F4. (But a better camera, of course.)

I have both and would not say the F6 is better. Different.
I prefer the meter bias on the F4 - it is set up for C41 film, while the matrix on the F6 is set up for positive/slide film.
Much prefer using AA batteries than the CR2.
Much prefer the dials vs buttons.
Like that I can pull the batteries out of the F4 and store w/ no consequences. If you pull the batteries out of the F6 it will lose the internal clock after about a month.

F6 is smoother/quieter/less vibration.
F6 has a fantastic vf/focus screen for manual focusing lenses.
F6 has the perfect grip.

Craig · Oct 27, 2020

Huss said:
I have both and would not say the F6 is better. Different.

I would certainly agree with that. They have a different feel, and while the F4 is a very capable camera, they put a lot of thought into making it simple to operate.

The F6 can use AA batteries with the MB40 grip, but that does make it heavier. I think the F6 is easier to use in the winter while wearing gloves, and it is easier to rewind the film manually.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 27, 2020

Ah............F5.

Huss · Oct 27, 2020

MartinCrabtree said:
Ah............F5.

Is what happens when you combine an F4 and F6, weight-wise.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 28, 2020

that was posted in jest but............I have become accustomed to the weight and the battery eating issue (as well as some weight) is covered with energizer lithium batteries. And the AF is simply excellent. With a measly 5 points in dynamic mode it covers a 300 MPH funny car for 4 seconds as well as a MX bike 10 feet in the air equally well.

Huss · Oct 28, 2020

MartinCrabtree said:
that was posted in jest but............I have become accustomed to the weight and the battery eating issue (as well as some weight) is covered with energizer lithium batteries. And the AF is simply excellent. With a measly 5 points in dynamic mode it covers a 300 MPH funny car for 4 seconds as well as a MX bike 10 feet in the air equally well.

View attachment 258135

Sweet pic!

GarageBoy · Oct 28, 2020

MartinCrabtree said:
that was posted in jest but............I have become accustomed to the weight and the battery eating issue (as well as some weight) is covered with energizer lithium batteries. And the AF is simply excellent. With a measly 5 points in dynamic mode it covers a 300 MPH funny car for 4 seconds as well as a MX bike 10 feet in the air equally well.

View attachment 258135

I've never shot action with af before - how would you track a shot like this? Which af point/modes etc? Thanks!

Craig · Oct 28, 2020

GarageBoy said:
I've never shot action with af before - how would you track a shot like this? Which af point/modes etc? Thanks!

I'd do it by following the bike as it came toward me, and having the camera in continuous focus mode. It will adjust the focus as the bike gets closer. It's basically a panning shot.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 28, 2020

Huss said:
Sweet pic!

Thanks. I love the grain flat diffused light and gritty feel of it.

GarageBoy said:
I've never shot action with af before - how would you track a shot like this? Which af point/modes etc? Thanks!

Shot in continuous servo AF release priority w/dynamic tracking. I designate a primary focus area (center). I active the AF (I use back button focus) and it "grabs" the subject,focuses on it and follows it when it moves as long as it's in the viewfinder or until I release the button. I have a custom setting for this kind of shooting stashed in the camera so it's an easy set up. Typically I use shutter priority using a fast film.

This was shot on Fuji Superia 800 (Nikon AF 28-85 f3.5-4.5) in Mt. Morris PA at the annual Pro Motocross National..............2013....I think. Subject is Eli Tomac. Exposure lost to time.

Stuff like this is what the F5 shines at. I bought this from a forum member and never looked back. it's the one I'd keep if I had to pick "just one."

Craig said:
I'd do it by following the bike as it came toward me, and having the camera in continuous focus mode. It will adjust the focus as the bike gets closer. It's basically a panning shot.

See above and yep panning is a component.

Need a new (to me) Nikon F4, a few questions

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency