NBC short film documenting rise in film use

Huss · Nov 13, 2020

Kodak mentions that their production has doubled in the last four years, and they expect a 30% yearly increase going forward.
What is disappointing is that they say they did not have the market intelligence research to see that young people were getting into it... What kind of market research were they doing all this time? Seems like none..

Why We Still Love Film: Analog Photography in the Digital Age | NBC Left Field

MattKing · Nov 13, 2020

Huss said:
What kind of market research were they doing all this time?

They were relying on their dealers - and that part of the industry essentially imploded.
The bankruptcy kind of got in the way as well.

Huss · Nov 13, 2020

They seemed to be surprised that something called the internet and social media existed.

MattKing · Nov 13, 2020

Huss said:
They seemed to be surprised that something called the internet and social media existed.

I think the surprise was respect to the fact that people who might use film were prepared to rely on the internet and social media.

pentaxuser · Nov 13, 2020

It was OK as 10 minutes of lightweight viewing but lacked any real detail in terms of figures, threats/opportunities. Good job it wasn't a briefing on the state of Covid-19 that attempts to persuade us on the need for the continuation of restrictions. I fear that had it been it might have been judged to lack the necessary weight

pentaxuser

Huss · Nov 13, 2020

MattKing said:
I think the surprise was respect to the fact that people who might use film were prepared to rely on the internet and social media.

Well, they had nothing else to rely on!

The scene in that used camera store was nutty - $3000 for a Contax T3!!!

foc · Nov 13, 2020

It was good to hear that the Accurate Photo lab in Brooklyn (at the end of the video) was processing 75-100 films a day, I assume from walk in as their website is fairly basic and has no e-commerce. Think about how much busier they would be if they had an online presence.
Of course a shop like that need to sell a lot more other film-related products and services to make it all worth while.

Bikerider · Nov 13, 2020

If the increase continues then someone will have to do something about the manufacture of a new film camera(s) Some are getting quite rare now and there will be a real shortage if the electronics start packing up as they will over time. Where have al the Pentax screw thread models gone to? There were millions manufactured over the years.

BradS · Nov 13, 2020

We had a thread on this already.....

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...phy-in-the-digital-age-nbc-left-field.172341/

BradS · Nov 13, 2020

Bikerider said:
.....Where have al the Pentax screw thread models gone to? There were millions manufactured over the years.

...and about a quarter of a million of them are offered for sale on eBay at any given moment.

I have a box full...can't hardly sell them for the price of shipping.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 13, 2020

I wonder how many of the young people who are discovering film are members here? This is the place to be, in my opinion. Maybe we're too old and not hip enough... but look at the knowledge here!

Bikerider · Nov 14, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
I wonder how many of the young people who are discovering film are members here? This is the place to be, in my opinion. Maybe we're too old and not hip enough... but look at the knowledge here!

I suspect that there will not be many new members on this forum because of the changing priorities. I belong to a Motorcycle club and we are facing a similar problem. Sales of bikes in UK has over the years rocketed, but club membership has dropped off in the majority of cases. It is so we have come to a collective agreement that it is a 'here today gone tomorrow' sort of situation. Also people don't appreciate belonging to a club and having to go along with their rules when they can get in touch with friends via social media and have an impromptu ride with no other ties.

The use of film is increasing but the long view of things is after a very short period they get fed up with the cost and move onto other pastures - in the main possibly because so much information how to get the best out of film is not getting through to new users.

Where did you get this information in the past - From magazines and other publications. I learned my 'trade' via magazines, good, well written books and joining a good club. Name for me, one popular and easily found magazine, worldwide that is on the shelves, that deals regularly with the use of film and darkroom procedures. I cannot think of one, in UK anyway. Skills are being lost and will be very difficult to re-kindle. Also photographic clubs almost without exception deal with the Gods - Adobe and Digital. To be brutally honest they were the saviours of photo clubs, but at the expense of the almost total exclusion of film based photography. Then again the media - and not the social type, is still spreading the gossip - AKA fake news, that film is impossible to buy, if not discontinued.

Finally, people are generally lazy. I don't mean that unkindly, but they will take the easy way out by using digital and sitting in front of a computer screen to make a picture in the light and not standing in an almost blacked out room with dishes of chemicals. Basic human nature.

AgX · Nov 14, 2020

My attempts to win young peole as members at Apug all failed.
One may argue whether this is due to me or Apug...

A club is more formalized than a forum. It think it only got club character for long time, multi-posters.

My impression is that young people are not in interested in learning the theory etc.
-) by textbooks
-) by forae (they are no teaching means as such anyway)
-) by classic lectures

They overlook though that these typically got some quality control.
The preferred Youtube videos at best got these controls at the commentary.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 14, 2020

Bikerider said:
If the increase continues then someone will have to do something about the manufacture of a new film camera(s) Some are getting quite rare now and there will be a real shortage if the electronics start packing up as they will over time. Where have al the Pentax screw thread models gone to? There were millions manufactured over the years.

And there is still tons of Pentax M42 gear all over the place to grab, and still at low price points.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 14, 2020

Huss said:
Kodak mentions that their production has doubled in the last four years, and they expect a 30% yearly increase going forward.
What is disappointing is that they say they did not have the market intelligence research to see that young people were getting into it... What kind of market research were they doing all this time? Seems like none..

Now we know how Kodak makes price increase logic work, good lord.

kuparikettu · Nov 14, 2020

Well, as I'm already over 30 I might not count, but I always appreciated the knowledge found in forums. I tend to visit my main interest forums almost daily (cinematography.com , filmvorfuehrer.de and film making groups on Facebook). Very useful!

What tends to drive me away from this forum is the attitude here, which is perhaps best described to be quite cynical regarding the future of film. I'm not saying everyone is like that - but for some reason, that attitude often springs up whenever good news are told.

We young people don't want to nurture self pitying fantasies of how things were better in the 1960s and how everything is in decline, save for the film & chemicals hoarded for the coming next ten years after which The End will come...

Tom Kershaw · Nov 14, 2020

Bikerider said:
The use of film is increasing but the long view of things is after a very short period they get fed up with the cost and move onto other pastures - in the main possibly because so much information how to get the best out of film is not getting through to new users.

- and some or much of the information available via YouTube or blogs isn't of a particularly high standard or is simply incorrect or misleading.

halfaman · Nov 14, 2020

Film is increasing but I am afraid that printing is going on the opposite direction, optically or digitally. It is all about cameras and shoot with film, the whole thing is scanned and uploaded to the social media of choice to be contemplated and forgotten in the same second.

foc · Nov 14, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
- and some or much of the information available via YouTube or blogs isn't of a particularly high standard or is simply incorrect or misleading.

Agree. And the misinformation is then passed on as fact and then quoted as set in stone. That of course is the nature of the beast (social media).
BUT I think there is still enough correct information out there, it is just sometimes hard to separate the "wheat from the chaff".

If I am really interested in gaining knowledge then I will spend time seeking it out. If not, then I won't even bother to Google it, I will ask someone else to do it for me.

All hobbies have people that start and then after a short while move on. But some stick with it.

Yes I can be very lazy and seek the easy option, sometimes, but if I am interested enough then I will pursue it further.

I think it can come down to what type of person you. Do you want to be entertained or do you entertain yourself?

foc · Nov 14, 2020

halfaman said:
Film is increasing but I am afraid that printing is going on the opposite direction, optically or digitally. It is all about cameras and shoot with film, the whole thing is scanned and uploaded to the social media of choice to be contemplated and forgotten in the same second.

I don't totally agree. My son has an online business selling "old school" photo albums. The type where you slip in a photo or peel back a self adhesive page.

He has never been busier. If all these people are buying photo albums, then they must have photo prints to put into them.

I think the Fuji Instax has helped the revival of the physical print.

Before I retired earlier this year, I saw an increase in my lab in photo printing. It had been like that for the last 2 years. Ok, it will never be like what it was back in the day but no more than the increase in film, there is a growing interest in photo printing either in-store or online.

138S · Nov 14, 2020

halfaman said:
Film is increasing but I am afraid that printing is going on the opposite direction, optically or digitally

Even in the film era not many photograpers had their own darkroom to print art... What is "regular printing" has been largelly substituted by screens, you can see the image very big with very acceptable quality, to not mention the 8k TVs many people we'll have in a few years. Also the digital image is easy shared, so printing on paper is functionally obsolete.

Still, from that new generation of film photographers a minority will engage the amazing darkroom adventure. A pure optical print may have an inmense value as a crafted art, the artist's hand is seen in the craft and a top notch result only can come from true masterliness, adding merit and uniqueness to the image.

We have to hope that some delayed optic printing flourishment will follow the film flourishment.

Film manufacturers have benefited from the effort many enthusiasts made and do in the analog promotion and divulgation, free promotion. And the enthusiats have benefited from the industry sourcing the materials, there in a symbiosis.

Still some long term policy should be in force. Right now manufacturer know that those are not products that are to disapear so a "line closing policy" has to be applied, making short term marketing plans to squeeze the most they can from last customers, instead now they have the opportunity to build an ample customer base that will ensure long term profits and film survivability instead short term cash.

AgX · Nov 14, 2020

foc said:
If all these people are buying photo albums, then they must have photo prints to put into them.
I think the Fuji Instax has helped the revival of the physical print.

The physical photographs newer were dead in Europe. Just consider the billions of prints a major finisher cranks out per year. At rather stable level meanwhile. And both, as parts of a photobook and as single print.

Bikerider · Nov 14, 2020

AgX said:
My attempts to win young peole as members at Apug all failed.
One may argue whether this is due to me or Apug...

A club is more formalized than a forum. It think it only got club character for long time, multi-posters.

.

The motorcycle club I belong to has an active forum mainly to keep people up to date with what is going on and give help. chat. discus etc. We have very strict rules for a code of conduct/language etc because it used to be a bit of bear pit until the main 3 or 4 problematic members were dealt with. New members who both join the club and the forum (you are not automatically a member of one without the other) and can be quite disgusted when they are told the forum is the minor part of the club and is not the 'CLUB' per se. and they leave although they have paid their subscription. It is not the long time users, it is the newbies that leave because they have not read what we are all about..

Click to expand...

Huss · Nov 14, 2020

AgX said:
My attempts to win young peole as members at Apug all failed.
One may argue whether this is due to me or Apug...

A club is more formalized than a forum. It think it only got club character for long time, multi-posters.

My impression is that young people are not in interested in learning the theory etc.
-) by textbooks
-) by forae (they are no teaching means as such anyway)
-) by classic lectures

They overlook though that these typically got some quality control.
The preferred Youtube videos at best got these controls at the commentary.

There's too much bickering on this site to attract young people.

NB23 · Nov 14, 2020

It’s a weird market. And the company is run by BOZOS. Mix those 2 together and you have a kodak. Yes, Kodak stands for “stupid”.

NBC short film documenting rise in film use

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