Mytol/Xtol information

[MingMingPhoto]

Hey guys. So I'm jsut wondering how to create Xtol. I saw on another thread that Mytol is a known alternative. Is this the proper full formula?

Instant MYTOL

Here's a formula that gives a developer with the same ascorbate and phenidone concentrations as MYTOL, has a similar sulfite concentration, and matches the pH of MYTOL's stock solution. It should be simpler to mix in that it doesn't use sodium...

www.photrio.com

also, if it is can I refer to data in "the film developing cook book" referring to xtol as good also for mytol? (especially info on storage , replenishment, times, and dilutions)

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Much easier to buy Adox XT3.

 

[koraks]

Is this the proper full formula?

The official formula of XTOL has never been published. Nobody knows what's in there for sure, but reasonable guesses go in the direction of the type of formula you've linked to. There are several variants that boil down to pretty much the same thing. You need to distinguish between what's in the bag of powder and what's ultimately in the developer solution as mixed. There can be variations in the former that still result in the same actual developer as mixed.

also, if it is can I refer to data in "the film developing cook book" referring to xtol as good also for mytol? (especially info on storage , replenishment, times, and dilutions)

For times and dilutions, you should be close.
For storage and replenishment: all bets are off. This is an ascorbate developer which runs the risk of sudden death due to iron ions catalytically breaking down the ascorbate. It was a well-known with official XTOL when it just came out, but they took measures against it. It is still a concern for self-made XTOL-clones, especially if no complexing agent is added to get rid of any stray iron ions, as is the case in the cited formula. There's some good news on this front that you should check out: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-now-being-sold-by-artcraft-chemicals.205663/

However, since you're running a commercial operation, I would be very cautious indeed trying to run a replenished MyTOL system on your customers' film. Be sure to try it on your own test film instead for a couple of months until you've proven that it's stable. Well, that would be my recommendation at least; how you serve your clients is ultimately up to you. I do suspect what your clients expect, though, and it's not an experimental replenishment system run with few controls intended to shave a few cents off the cost price.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Much easier to buy Adox XT3.

+1. I mix my own developers like Pyrocat, but buy XT-3 and use it replenished. XT-3 is a breeze to mix, does everything Xtol did for me and I think it's the cat's meow.

 

[retina_restoration]

There is very little compelling reason to make your own Ascorbate developer: it doesn't last long once made, compared to Xtol or TX-3. Mytol has to be used within a couple of days or it starts to degrade.
If you're just a hobbyist who likes making your own chemistry from scratch, then by all means, go for it. But plan to use it within a couple days of assembling it.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ascorbate developers that use TEA or Glycol (PC-TEA, PC-512, etc) last indefinitely... longer than XTOl or TX-3.

 

[runswithsizzers]

+1. I mix my own developers like Pyrocat, but buy XT-3 and use it replenished. XT-3 is a breeze to mix, does everything Xtol did for me and I think it's the cat's meow.

I see you are in the US; where are you buying your Adox XT-3?

Freestyle has it in their catalog, but right now it is "out of stock." There are several Adox products I would like to try, and Freestyle is out of all of them. Is there any other US retailer that stocks Adox products? I would prefer to avoid the cost and hassles of having an order shipped from Europe.

 

[Craig]

Ascorbate developers that use TEA or Glycol (PC-TEA, PC-512, etc) last indefinitely... longer than XTOl or TX-3.

Only as a concentrate though, not once mixed to a working solution. Unless I'm misunderstanding and the working solution for PC-TEA has no water and uses glycol entirely? The only water in the process is in the fix and final wash?

 

[Paul Howell]

Although no longer covered by a patent Kodak's formula is still a pretty well kept secret. Legacy and Photographer's Formulary do have a clone, Forma has, again I have not seen a published formula. 5 liters of Kodak Extol is not that expensive, more than the various clones of D 76, but within reason. What is your thinking as to why you want to mix your own?

 

[koraks]

Only as a concentrate though, not once mixed to a working solution.

Exactly. And this has big implications for the possibility of running a dependable replenished system with them.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I see you are in the US; where are you buying your Adox XT-3?

Freestyle has it in their catalog, but right now it is "out of stock." There are several Adox products I would like to try, and Freestyle is out of all of them. Is there any other US retailer that stocks Adox products? I would prefer to avoid the cost and hassles of having an order shipped from Europe.

Yes, I just noticed that Freestyle still hasn't received their shipment. I'm not worried for now since I use it replenished, and I'm very sure that it will be in stock by the time this batch bites the dust. I know that doesn't do you any good, but keep your fingers crossed.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Yes, I just noticed that Freestyle still hasn't received their shipment. I'm not worried for now since I use it replenished, and I'm very sure that it will be in stock by the time this batch bites the dust. I know that doesn't do you any good, but keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks. I have a batch of Eco-Pro that should last me until mid-summer, and I am trying out some Microphen as well.

 

[bluechromis]

Only as a concentrate though, not once mixed to a working solution. Unless I'm misunderstanding and the working solution for PC-TEA has no water and uses glycol entirely? The only water in the process is in the fix and final wash?

There is a two-part version of Instant Mytol where part A is in glycol. I have used this, and it seems the same as Xtol and has a decent shelf life. I don't understand the concern about the short shelf life of the working solution of an ascorbate developer mixed from a concentrate. My understanding is that many developer working solutions that have been diluted from a stock solution do not last long. Does Rodinal or D-76 working solution, for example, have much of a shelf life when diluted from the stock?

https://photosensitive.ca/easy-film-developers

 

[Craig]

There is a two-part version of Instant Mytol where part A is in glycol. I have used this, and it seems the same as Xtol and has a decent shelf life. I don't understand the concern about the short shelf life of the working solution of an ascorbate developer mixed from a concentrate.

The difference is the Kodak version of Xtol has iron sequestering agents in it to prevent the "sudden death". That allows the long life and replenishment of a mixed solution. I was not seeing those chemicals in the Mytol formula, so it's life as a replenishment developer is much less certain.

It's not the life of the separate parts in glycol that is under consideration, it's once mixed how long does it last? I have had mixed batches of Xtol last 3 years and work just fine in a replenishment regime, I wouldn't try that with Mytol.

Even if you don't replentinsh, Xtol can be mixed and reused full strength, just like D76 can and it has good keeping qualities once mixed. Ascorbate developers have been known since the 1960's, but they never became mainstream until Xtol simply because they wouldn't keep. They had to be mixed and used one shot right away and then discarded.

 

[pentaxuser]

Do we know that MingMingPhoto is intending to use this Instant Mytol formula in a replenished system such as might be the case if his interest is using it in a commercial operation?

Otherwise doesn't the "edit" section in MinMingPhoto's link cover the problem of short life which is what Andrew O'Neill was referring to in #6?

pentaxuser

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Ascorbate developers that use TEA or Glycol (PC-TEA, PC-512, etc) last indefinitely... longer than XTOl or TX-3.

Perhaps, but do they have the same high all-round yield as Xtol and XT3?

 

[pentaxuser]

There would appear to be certain parallels between what MingMingPhoto's "edit section says in his link and the demonstration by John Finch in the video below. It refers to Crawley's FX55 but the factors that make it possible to produce a long lasting developer with ascorbic acid would seem to apply.

For those interested in what he has to say here it is :



pentaxuser

 

[relistan]

The "secret" to XTOL shelf life is not exactly a secret. You just need the right sequestrant: DTPA. @albada got Artcraft in the US to stock it: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ld-by-artcraft-chemicals.205663/#post-2780265

If you want to mess with something longer life, that is the place to start. But I wouldn't attempt homebrew replenishment until you have something you are using, like, and exhibits the kind of shelf life necessary.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

thank you everyone - I'm not planning on using xtol for customers or for community lab members.
I have been using microphen for my own work and suddenly it seems ilford has disscoontinued or in general has been very slow to restock in the US.
In response I read 'the film developing cook book' found the formula for ID-68 and bought all the materials to make my own microphen. it looks like mixing it myself will be incredibly cheap (and fun) compared to buying it (got a new fancy magnetic stirrer).

In reading I also came across Xtol, so now I'm going to try it out. I'm also interested in trying to mix it now for fun, save money, to feel safe relying on it (incase kodak decides to stop making it and I'm already addicted to it) and to try out all my new toys haha.

thank you for all the information guys! seems like Xtol will be a fun side project of mixing experiments. I'll prob only make Mytol in small batches the day before I plan to use it. I'm assuming a couple of you guys hae tried the formula I linked and have had results comparable to Xtol (or if you have a different formula can you please link it?)

 

[retina_restoration]

thank you everyone - I'm not planning on using xtol for customers or for community lab members.
I have been using microphen for my own work and suddenly it seems ilford has disscoontinued or in general has been very slow to restock in the US.
In response I read 'the film developing cook book' found the formula for ID-68 and bought all the materials to make my own microphen. it looks like mixing it myself will be incredibly cheap (and fun) compared to buying it (got a new fancy magnetic stirrer).

In reading I also came across Xtol, so now I'm going to try it out. I'm also interested in trying to mix it now for fun, save money, to feel safe relying on it (incase kodak decides to stop making it and I'm already addicted to it) and to try out all my new toys haha.

thank you for all the information guys! seems like Xtol will be a fun side project of mixing experiments. I'll prob only make Mytol in small batches the day before I plan to use it. I'm assuming a couple of you guys hae tried the formula I linked and have had results comparable to Xtol (or if you have a different formula can you please link it?)

Mytol will give you results identical to Xtol.

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Mytol will give you results identical to Xtol.

thank you, and can you confirm the recipe I linked is the same one you've used?

 

[koraks]

I'm not planning on using xtol for customers or for community lab members.

Okay, that's a reassurance - btw, by all means do use it commercially if you want, just be warned that it might be difficult to do so in a consistent manner in a replenished system. For one shot use, it'll be just fine for any purpose!

I frequently use a Mytol variant. It's great.

 

[grain elevator]

make Mytol in small batches the day before I plan to use it

From what I've read, that's too long to be safe from Fenton reaction; you need to mix it just before use (unless you mean measuring/mixing dry powders, that might work).

 

[retina_restoration]

thank you, and can you confirm the recipe I linked is the same one you've used?

Correct, using the Sodium metaborate.