Mythical Oriental Graded Papers: Availability?

Hello everybody:

Are these still available? They are listed on B&H's site as a special order in very limited sizes (no smaller than 16x20?) More sizes are shown on the Oriental website, but I'm unsure if the site is simply outdated. Can anyone confirm their existence and clarify a good source to obtain?

I use a pyrogallol-based film developer and so greatly prefer graded papers to display tones linearly. Even if I change developers, I have a large backlog of pyrogallol negs that need printing. The published ISO range of Oriental promises a half-grade difference from Galerie for when I want a little more or a little less contrast from my calibration target of Galerie G3. 80-90% of the time I'm printing 8x10 or 11x14. I prefer neutral tones. I use Ansco 130 or Amidol (generally for Lodima contacts)

I have had some good prints with graded Fomabrom but I've just tested and discovered the limits of its Dmax (weakest of 5 papers tested). Oriental could potentially be something richer.

J

Jarin Blaschke said:

Hello everybody:

Are these still available? They are listed on B&H's site as a special order in very limited sizes (no smaller than 16x20?) More sizes are shown on the Oriental website, but I'm unsure if the site is simply outdated. Can anyone confirm their existence and clarify a good source to obtain?

I use a pyrogallol-based film developer and so greatly prefer graded papers to display tones linearly. Even if I change developers, I have a large backlog of pyrogallol negs that need printing. The published ISO range of Oriental promises a half-grade difference from Galerie for when I want a little more or a little less contrast from my calibration target of Galerie G3. 80-90% of the time I'm printing 8x10 or 11x14. I prefer neutral tones. I use Ansco 130 or Amidol (generally for Lodima contacts)

I have had some good prints with graded Fomabrom but I've just tested and discovered the limits of its Dmax (weakest of 5 papers tested). Oriental could potentially be something richer.

J

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I also use a pyrogallol-based film developer (recipe by Jed Freudenthal) and have excellent results with graded Galerie papers from Ilford. I develop this paper in Ansco 130. Very strong blacks and clean whites. 100% neutral to very slightly warm tone. Quite different from Foma Variant 111 which is a warm paper and has a weak performance in light tones.

I don't think the 'classic' Seagull paper is still in production - and that which is out there is coveted by anyone who does lith printing.

As it's unlikely we can get G4 Galerie (wonder what the MOQ is to get a batch coated?), other solutions to look at include using the 130 undiluted or other high-contrast developers to bump up a 1/2 to 1 grade. Alternatively if you can get the G3 (also called #3, or Freestyle listed it as G4 I think) version of Kentmere's bromide emulsion, it's more like everyone else's idea of G4-5, & use a softer working developer like Ansco 120 to pull it down a grade. It's out of production but lasts pretty well. Pre & post flashes also help there for different effects depending on need to open shadows, pull down highlights. Post flash can also be dodged & burnt, though it's a bit like flying blind.

Staying in that vein, filtering MG paper with a blue separation filter (or the one you had custom made for ortho effects) would give you the slow emulsion only, eliminating any fast/slow emulsion crossovers you might perceive. Again, you'll likely need a soft working developer, though the pyro stain might actually be beneficial here.

Regarding Dmax, I'd go by look of final print, rather than fetishizing the densitometer. Best prescription is a year of printing only on matte papers - not least as it shows far more about print 'richness' having a lot less to do with Dmax & more about total approach.

Oriental G4 graded was the paper of choice for Mike Spry for Anton Corjbins work, I used the original and it was great for lith prints, but then the company kind of changed direction and quite frankly the Oriental papers IMO sucked after the change.
It is kind of like my desire to see Ilfomar come back or Ectalure.. we can only dream but frankly I find gum printing over palladium rocks and meets all my desires as a printer.