Mystery Film to develop

Jarvman · Oct 16, 2013

Hi all, a guy at my woodwork class gave me this film to process that he found in somebody's odds and ends. Could anyone advise me what sort of film it is and whether it will still be processable? Also possible times/dilutions etc...

Many thanks, Gareth

Dr Croubie · Oct 17, 2013

Given that it's Ilford, it's pretty much going to be Black and White, and almost anything will develop in a Rodinal stand. (whether there's anything on it above the base fog will be interesting). I've heard HC110 is good for cutting through fog on old films, but i've never used it...

Fixcinater · Oct 17, 2013

I just shot and souped the first roll out of a bulk Ilford roll, dated 1973. It's only labeled "Mk.V Film" for identification.

5ml of HC110 + water to cover. 25c, 8 minutes. Looks quite good for something that old, not knowing anything about it's speed or any other characteristics.

Newt_on_Swings · Oct 17, 2013

Just use what you have, no point in going out of your way to get a special developer just for one random roll. If you have HC110 id say go dilution B, and develop it warm and fast 75f and maybe 4-5min to really cut the fog. You can also try two bath developers that take out the timing aspect of it as well like diafine.

BMbikerider · Oct 17, 2013

This may be the long discontinued Ilford Selochrome film. I think it went off the production line perhaps 40 years ago. Google the Ilford company in Mobberley in Cheshire, and send them an E mail or speak to their tech department and ask their advice. They are usually very helpful

Ian Grant · Oct 17, 2013

You'll have to see-saw the film through a tray of developer as it's larger than 120. I have the original dev times for all the old Ilford films and I'd suggest 12 mins in ID-11/D76 @ 20ºC, or whatever you'd use for FP4+ but increase the time by 25%. That works for older films,

Ian

Regular Rod · Oct 17, 2013

Jarvman said:
Hi all, a guy at my woodwork class gave me this film to process that he found in somebody's odds and ends. Could anyone advise me what sort of film it is and whether it will still be processable? Also possible times/dilutions etc...

Many thanks, Gareth

It's a roll of 116 not 120 I think. You will need to develop it with either a spaced out spiral to get the gap right, or in a big deep tray like a washing up bowl in which you can manually agitate the film through the developer without catching and scratching it on the bottom of the tray. Big film clips like the Patterson clips on each end may help you to lay it down on one edge, between agitations, without it spiralling out of control and being damaged. Of course if you have access to deep tanks you simply manipulate it in your usual way. If it was me I'd carefully unwind the film a little bit and use a rubber band on a rule to measure in the dark how wide the film was edge to edge. Then wind it back, tape it and put it safely on one side in a lightproof container. Then work out some way of spacing a spool (maybe with rubber bands on the shaft) at the right width for the film's dimensions and then develop it semi-stand (after a pre-soak in water) with a compensating developer and a generous amount of time. What developers do you have available?

It would be good to see what you find on there...

RR

Bruce Robbins · Oct 17, 2013

Here's some good info on old Ilford products that might be interesting if not useful:
http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

A two bath developer is another way to go but stand development is probably easier and there are other developers aside from Rodinal you can use although it's likely the best for that purpose. Good luck with the film!

summicron1 · Oct 17, 2013

yeah, it's 116 -- if you have an old Yankee reel tank that goes that wide (I have one!) you can do it that way, otherwise it's tray -- get it wet so it's easier to handle and then hold it so the reverse curl makes it hold a giant U shape and rock it back and forth in a tray or open tank for both dev and fix.

lacking any hard data, if it's b/w (safe assumption) try d-76, 1:1 for 10 minutes and pray.

Ian Grant · Oct 17, 2013

D76 1+1 for 10 minutes will give under-development , all the old Ilford films needed 8½-10 minutes in Full Strength ID-11/D76 and you need to add a little extra time for older films as the contrast will have dropped slightly.

Ian

Jarvman · Oct 18, 2013

Thank you kindly for the advice everybody! Appreciated! Will have to try the tray method as Ian suggested. I don't have either ID-11 or D76. Well actually, I think I have D76 but I'm not touching a whole pack just for one film. I do have HC-110, XTOL and Ilford DD-X handy.

Simon R Galley · Oct 18, 2013

Dear Jarvman,

Please see Ian Grants post, he is spot on : ID11/D76 12 mins : We occasionally get films sent to us and this is the standard that we would use.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 18, 2013

Jarvman said:
Thank you kindly for the advice everybody! Appreciated! Will have to try the tray method as Ian suggested. I don't have either ID-11 or D76. Well actually, I think I have D76 but I'm not touching a whole pack just for one film. I do have HC-110, XTOL and Ilford DD-X handy.

If you don't have D76 available, Xtol yields very low fog. Use stock developer. I would try 10 minutes at 68 F / 20 C.
The key is to try to lift the exposed values above the accumulated fog, and few developers develop shadows like Xtol does.

More importantly - don't promise the film's owner anything results wise. There's always risk of unusable results from film this old, risk that is beyond your control.

snederhiser · Oct 18, 2013

Hello;
I would question if the film has been exposed yet? Notice the frame size on the roll and the masking tape. I think this information would only be printed on the unexposed end of the roll, Steven.

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2013

hi jarvman ..

do you have any dektol or ansco130?

you might also consider 1:7 for about 8-9 minutes the same
development method ian suggested, if you don't have d76/id11.

have fun solving your mystery !

john

Regular Rod · Oct 18, 2013

Jarvman said:
Thank you kindly for the advice everybody! Appreciated! Will have to try the tray method as Ian suggested. I don't have either ID-11 or D76. Well actually, I think I have D76 but I'm not touching a whole pack just for one film. I do have HC-110, XTOL and Ilford DD-X handy.

Use the XTOL!

RR

Regular Rod · Oct 18, 2013

snederhiser said:
Hello;
I would question if the film has been exposed yet? Notice the frame size on the roll and the masking tape. I think this information would only be printed on the unexposed end of the roll, Steven.

He will be able to tell in the darkroom or tent by unrolling the paper until he reaches the film. If it is attached with tape then it is unexposed, if it is free to flail about it is exposed. If he is going to measure it as suggested earlier he will ascertain any way whether it has been exposed or not. Personally with masking tape I'd guess it was exposed. The original would have had a paper tape round it.

RR

Jarvman · Oct 18, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Jarvman,

Please see Ian Grants post, he is spot on : ID11/D76 12 mins : We occasionally get films sent to us and this is the standard that we would use.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Cheers Simon. I wonder about development though, will 12 mins be alright if I'm sloshing it through a tray. Wouldn't that be the same as continual agitation? And yes, it says 'exposed' on the outer paper.

Ian Grant · Oct 18, 2013

Jarvman said:
Cheers Simon. I wonder about development though, will 12 mins be alright if I'm sloshing it through a tray. Wouldn't that be the same as continual agitation? And yes, it says 'exposed' on the outer paper.

12 minutes will be fine it's not in the developer continuously and you see-saw it gently.

Ian

Jarvman · Oct 19, 2013

By 'see-saw' you mean holding it by either end and rocking it back and fore in and out of the tray yeah?

Ian Grant · Oct 19, 2013

Jarvman said:
By 'see-saw' you mean holding it by either end and rocking it back and fore in and out of the tray yeah?

Yes, it's easier than it sounds. A 10x8 dish is large enough.

Ian

cmacd123 · Oct 19, 2013

the see-saw method was once the standard for film that used a red safe-light. Once Pancro became the norm, folks switched to tanks. If you are sure it is 116 or 616, most of the old FR tanks will take it.

they turn up cheep enough like this sample listing (Not mine and I don't know the seller) http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300901981528 (note the mention of 116 on the box.)

Prof_Pixel · Oct 19, 2013

All this talk about tray developing film takes me back.... I got started in photography as a teenager about 60 years ago using the see-saw method of tray developing Verichrome (back in its ortho days) with a red safelight and MQ developer. (Remember the old Kodak Tri-Chem packs?)

Ian Grant · Oct 20, 2013

Prof_Pixel said:
All this talk about tray developing film takes me back.... I got started in photography as a teenager about 60 years ago using the see-saw method of tray developing Verichrome (back in its ortho days) with a red safelight and MQ developer. (Remember the old Kodak Tri-Chem packs?)

According to Mees & Sheppard "Verichrome" needed the same filter a Panchromatic emulsions a Wratten Series III because it was "Red sensitive" You must have been using a much later version

Ian

Prof_Pixel · Oct 20, 2013

The orthochromatic (non-red sensitive) version of Verichrome was available from 1931 to 1956. The panchromatic version (Verichrome Pan) came out in 1956.

Mystery Film to develop

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