Mystery Camera?

PGraham3 · Nov 9, 2017

Howdy, APUG! Amid my research making a lesson plan about the battles in Manchuria before/during WWII, I found this this image of a captured Japanese soldier, and the soldier with the camera on the right honestly caught my eye.
Just curious...
What exact camera do you all think this might be?

This photo was taken during/after the "Khalkhyn Gol" Battle in 1939 between the Japanese and Russian Forces. Thus, I imagine this camera may be Russian made.

anfenglin · Nov 9, 2017

That is or looks like a Leica or copy with torpedo finder and lens hood.
The case also is a dead giveaway, the one for my Leica II looks the same.

AgX · Nov 9, 2017

The uniform of the photographer looks soviet. He is wearing a boonie hat. As seemingly another man on the photo too. (I did not know these hats were used by the soviet army that early.)

oreston · Nov 9, 2017

AgX said:
The uniform of the photographer looks soviet. He is wearing a boonie hat. As seemingly another man on the photo too. (I did not know these hats were used by the soviet army that early.)

In which case the camera is quite possibly the original FED model (a very close Soviet copy of the Leica II, introduced in 1934). Presumably he's a Red Army photographer documenting the prisoners for propaganda purposes.

BAC1967 · Nov 9, 2017

It Looks like a Leica III or IIIa to me because it looks like there is a slow speed knob on the front that was not on the early Fed or Zorki cameras. Though the prototype of the Zorki 3, PM1085, had the slow speed knob and looked like that, very few were made. Also, did the Soviets make a torpedo viewfinder? I know they made turret finders.

oreston · Nov 9, 2017

BAC1967 said:
It Looks like a Leica III or IIIa to me because it looks like there is a slow speed knob on the front that was not on the early Fed or Zorki cameras. Though the prototype of the Zorki 3, PM1085, had the slow speed knob and looked like that, very few were made. Also, did the Soviets make a torpedo viewfinder? I know they made turret finders.

On close inspection there does appear to be a slow speed dial, so I think you're probably right (the Zorki 3 was quite a bit later anyway).
I initially went with it being a FED since that seemed historically more likely - especially as the Soviet state was a big customer for the early FEDs. That Leica was a long way from home, out on the Manchurian steppe.

georg16nik · Nov 10, 2017

The camera is FED B ~ 1938/1939 - fast speeds (top dial) 1/20 - 1/1000; slow speeds (front dial) 1 sec. - 1/20.
Most camera samples I've seen, got the collapsible FED 50mm ƒ/2 lens but the lens on the photo above is most likely the FED 28mm ƒ/4,5 which was made from about 1935 till 1941 or so.

FEB B is essentially upgraded FED S (komandirskie) e.g. the slow speed dial. A beefed-up FED kit might've easily included the FED 28mm ƒ/4,5 (as seen on the photo); 50mm ƒ/2; 50mm ƒ/3,5 macro; 100mm ƒ/5,6 or 100mm ƒ/6,3;

There are pictures of FED B (and S) in Princelles book The Authentic Guide to Russian and Soviet Cameras.

AgX · Nov 10, 2017

A FED of course would be more plausible. But I do not understand how one could decide based on that photo.

PGraham3 · Nov 14, 2017

Pretty cool! Thanks for all your observations!

John Wiegerink · Nov 15, 2017

Or he has a "spoils of war" Canon Hansa camera taken from a Japanese trooper. I think this is the case as it looks like he has the smile/smirk of a kid on Christmas day. He probably got it from Col. Iswaka walking next to him since Mr. Iswaka looks very disappointed like you would be if someone just swiped your prized Canon.

AgX · Nov 15, 2017

A japanese soldier in such moment of indignity and likely fear has other thoughts than about his camera.

John Wiegerink · Nov 15, 2017

AgX said:
A japanese soldier in such moment of indignity and likely fear has other thoughts than about his camera.

Oh yes, I couldn't agree more since his foe has been known to be rather harsh on any prisoners. Yes, the camera is more than likely the least of his worries at that moment.

BAC1967 · Nov 16, 2017

Despite some great arguments for the Fed B I still think it's a Leica because it looks like it has a Leica VIDOM viewfinder. Without knowing who the photographer is and what type of camera he used we will probably never know for sure. The Soviet Leica copies looked identical holding them side by side. You won't see much difference between them other than the markings and a few very minor differences (not visible in the photo), and the build quality (can't get that from a photo). The fact that it's a Soviet soldier does help with the Fed B argument but he would probably have also had access to a Leica.

oreston · Nov 16, 2017

BAC1967 said:
The fact that it's a Soviet soldier does help with the Fed B argument but he would probably have also had access to a Leica.

Would he? He may have done, but probably might be overstating it a little in the context of the socio-economic situation in the Soviet Union in the 1930s.

The bottom line is that we'll probably never know for certain. I was briefly persuaded of the Leica argument because of the slow speed dial, but georg16nik's information about the FED B throws it wide open to speculation... which is nonetheless fun!

BAC1967 · Nov 16, 2017

oreston said:
Would he? He may have done, but probably might be overstating it a little in the context of the socio-economic situation in the Soviet Union in the 1930s.

The bottom line is that we'll probably never know for certain. I was briefly persuaded of the Leica argument because of the slow speed dial, but georg16nik's information about the FED B throws it wide open to speculation... which is nonetheless fun!

It looks like he had access to a Leica VIDOM viewfinder, so why not a whole camera. I agree, we'll probably never know for sure but it is fun to speculate.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 16, 2017

After careful study, I can provide the following details about the camera in question:

- 1935 Leica IIIa, serial number 15926 with early model VIDOM
- 1935 50/3.5 Elmar (serial number not known), has cleaning marks
- film is Ilford FP2

oreston · Nov 17, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
After careful study, I can provide the following details about the camera in question:

- 1935 Leica IIIa, serial number 15926 with early model VIDOM
- 1935 50/3.5 Elmar (serial number not known), has cleaning marks
- film is Ilford FP2

Outstanding work, but you forgot to mention that the smiling Russian officer on the left of the frame in the background was called Dmitri. He was from Ekaterinburg, his hobby was playing with OO gauge model railways and he had a toothpaste allergy. Having vanished without trace from his retirement dacha in 1951, he is widely believed to have been abducted by aliens.

georg16nik · Nov 17, 2017

Why not Leica?
Leica III have strap lugs, unless being conversion from earlier model, while the one the photo don't.

The person from the photo is holding the camera which doesn't seem to have strap lugs and there is no strap attached or near the camera.
You can see the strapped camera case on the photo, carried separately.

Also, the camera is not Canon, since they have combined RF and VF, while the one the photo don't.

Mystery Camera?

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