Mystery 35 film bulk roll.

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

Purchased a bulk film loader from a second hand store with film in it!
Shot a couple rolls but nothing sticks . The developer washes everything out.
The lead of the roll comes out dark but the rest is see through.
Tried the two extreme film speed 15-1600.
Tried different cameras
tried different developer.
Tee film looks like Fomapan but...
Any ideas?

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

here's a pic

Agulliver · Oct 2, 2016

I've not seen purple/pink Fomapan.

It possibly might not be B&W film...but still very strange if nothing comes out on development. If the leader comes out dark, that suggests that it is responding to light and to the developer. Have you ruled out a camera fault?

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

Tried 3 different cameras. It must be B&W if everything washes out and if you can see through.

removed account4 · Oct 2, 2016

what developer are you using ?
do you have any instant coffee handy, dektol ?
you could make a batch of teaspoon made caffenol c with a splash of dektol
expose it at iso 200 and let it sit in the developer for a IDK 35-40 mins
then wash and fix it. for a long while i developed all my film this way
( all iso 100-800, c41, e6/b/w )
it nothing else, you might at least be able to read the words on the sprocket holes..
or use the film to do your fixer exhaustion clip tests

Agulliver · Oct 2, 2016

If the lead of the roll comes out dark, then the developer isn't washing that out....or am I missing something?

From what you describe, the leader (exposed to direct light) is coming out black/dark and the rest of the film is clear. Not even any edge letters or numbers - though some films have none. That suggests that the film is reacting to the direct light and the leader is being developed as expected. There is a chance that it is an ultra slow emulsion, 6ISO such as Kodak Precision Line. If outdated, people expose this as low as 2 or 3 ISO.

Is anyone able to identify the film in the picture? I've never seen a B&W film that colour, but I certainly have not seen all B&W films.

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

from what

jnanian said:
what developer are you using ?
do you have any instant coffee handy, dektol ?
you could make a batch of teaspoon made caffenol c with a splash of dektol
expose it at iso 200 and let it sit in the developer for a IDK 35-40 mins
then wash and fix it. for a long while i developed all my film this way
( all iso 100-800, c41, e6/b/w )
it nothing else, you might at least be able to read the words on the sprocket holes..
or use the film to do your fixer exhaustion clip tests

I used iD-11, rodinal, microphen, D76,

removed account4 · Oct 2, 2016

what print developer do you use ?
you can add 1/4 oz/ of whatever print developer you use
into a 8oz batch of caffenol c

8 oz. water
4 slightly rounded tsp. instant coffee [ the cheapest rot gut you can find ]
2 tsp. washing soda (sodium carbonate)**
1/4 tsp Vitamin C powder

ifyou dont' have washing soda but have BAKING soda, put some in your toaster oven and evaporate the water out of it
once water is removed it will be converted to washing soda ...

exact measurements isn't exactly necessary, i stopped measuring my ingredients the 2nd time i used it ( been using it about 10 years )
but you have to have the right ingredients
if you don't have cheap robusta instant coffee it might not work well
if you dont' have washing soda, it might not work well
if you don't use vit c, but use other stuff to can fruit, it won't work

if you don't want to deal with making caffenol c
and you have dektol, or ansco 130
expose an image on your film, and put it in ansco 130 or dektol 1:3 for 3 minutes

good luck !

you can also go to the caffenol-cookbook website, poke around the caffenol pages of flickr, or google caffenol and find some of the blogs if you want other recipes ...

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

Agulliver said:
If the lead of the roll comes out dark, then the developer isn't washing that out....or am I missing something?

From what you describe, the leader (exposed to direct light) is coming out black/dark and the rest of the film is clear. Not even any edge letters or numbers - though some films have none. That suggests that the film is reacting to the direct light and the leader is being developed as expected. There is a chance that it is an ultra slow emulsion, 6ISO such as Kodak Precision Line. If outdated, people expose this as low as 2 or 3 ISO.

Is anyone able to identify the film in the picture? I've never seen a B&W film that colour, but I certainly have not seen all B&W films.

Agulliver said:
If the lead of the roll comes out dark, then the developer isn't washing that out....or am I missing something?

Nothing comes out on the edges. There is a faint frame line on one shot.

I will try to shoot at the lowest ISO I can dial in.
This roll might be 20years old or older

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

I have some Dektol and a whole arsenal of diy chemicals but why would that change the results.
I am leaning towards Agulliver's theory. looks like I am not getting enough exposure

removed account4 · Oct 2, 2016

the dektol was to save you the trouble of spending 10 mins processing your iso tests.
you might consider bracketing your exposures and instead of in camera exposures expose
your film in the darkroom like a test strip. dektol can be used for film as well as prints
( like ansco 130 and others ) ... and it doesn't make golf ball size grain like the rumor mill suggests.
( iso 1 is a few stops slower than regular rc photo paepr )

darkroommike · Oct 2, 2016

That color on the unprocessed film reminds me of Kodalith Ortho Type 3.

guyver · Oct 2, 2016

Success!!
Thanks to
jnanian and Agulliver and drkrmike

Took a piece of film and processed as if I was making a print.
I was set up to print Ilfospeed RC3 for 15secs.
Did that and tray developed with Dektol 3:1 for 20min and fix for 15 min.

NOw would that translate to the camera settings... Mmmmm

claudius · Dec 7, 2016

hi
there,
just saw this post and found this usefull :

HOW TO FIND OUT PROCESSING TIME OF ANY FILM IN ANY DEVELOPER:
1. In a darkroom cut off a few strips 6-8 mm wide from the film you want to develop.
2. Turn the lights on. The strips are fogged now.
3. Take one strip with your right hand and a stopwatch with your left hand.
4. Dip one half of the strip in a developer and start a stop watch. The emulsion side of the
film strip placed in a developer will start lightening first and then darkening.
5. WHEN THE DARKNESS OF BOTH PARTS OF THE STRIP MATCH STOP THE STOPWATCH!
6. Divide the number of SECONDS shown by the stopwatch by 3. This is your developing
time in MINUTES. If stopwatch shows 24 seconds, developing time is 8 minutes.
7. Repeat two-three times for consistency. This method never failed for the last 60 years.
Buena fortuna,
klaus
denmark

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 7, 2016

So, most likely Ortho film.

paul ron · Dec 7, 2016

but why no edge markings?

here are kodak edge markings to film type codes.
http://www.taphilo.com/photo/kodakfilmnumxref.shtml

maybe its not a kodak film?

pentaxuser · Dec 7, 2016

I am still puzzled. The OP has said he developed the film in 4 different proprietary developers and at a speed as low as i.e. he assumed it was ISO 15 film and set the development times for a very low speed film but still got nothing i.e. not even a glimmer of an image? I can only assume that his camera settings were not corresponding to the low speed or even close.

I wonder how much underexposure is required for there to be nothing there at all?

Pity he hasn't come back to show us what he has produced since his Eureka post on Oct 2

pentaxuser

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 7, 2016

paul ron said:
but why no edge markings?

here are kodak edge markings to film type codes.
http://www.taphilo.com/photo/kodakfilmnumxref.shtml

maybe its not a kodak film?

Not an expert or nothing and probably I'm wrong, but the few test I made on Ortho Films had similar results. Also, dont really recall which Ortho film I used (it was some old stock my dad had on the freezer), but I remember the film was unmarked.

Regards

Marcelo

Cholentpot · Dec 7, 2016

claudius said:
hi
there,
just saw this post and found this usefull :

HOW TO FIND OUT PROCESSING TIME OF ANY FILM IN ANY DEVELOPER:
1. In a darkroom cut off a few strips 6-8 mm wide from the film you want to develop.
2. Turn the lights on. The strips are fogged now.
3. Take one strip with your right hand and a stopwatch with your left hand.
4. Dip one half of the strip in a developer and start a stop watch. The emulsion side of the
film strip placed in a developer will start lightening first and then darkening.
5. WHEN THE DARKNESS OF BOTH PARTS OF THE STRIP MATCH STOP THE STOPWATCH!
6. Divide the number of SECONDS shown by the stopwatch by 3. This is your developing
time in MINUTES. If stopwatch shows 24 seconds, developing time is 8 minutes.
7. Repeat two-three times for consistency. This method never failed for the last 60 years.
Buena fortuna,
klaus
denmark

Does this apply to expired film too? This is very interesting to me. I shoot a lot of expired film this would help me find the speed.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 7, 2016

Cholentpot said:
Does this apply to expired film too? This is very interesting to me. I shoot a lot of expired film this would help me find the speed.

Will try it tonight on expired Tri-X thats proven difficult to pinpoint its developing time

darkroommike · Dec 7, 2016

Kodalith has no edge markings since it's a graphic arts product not a camera film, I shot a roll in camera once at an EI of 6 and processed it in Kodalith AB developer. Not a very forgiving combination, I bracketed all over the place. Perhaps with some sort of POTA-like brew you could expose it at EI 12?

Cholentpot · Dec 7, 2016

Marcelo Paniagua said:
Will try it tonight on expired Tri-X thats proven difficult to pinpoint its developing time

I did it earlier with some Tmax100 that expired back in '06 and D-76 1:1 and it took 75 seconds. 25 minutes sound a bit on the long side...

Edit update'

Just did 5 tests with the same film in Tmax Dev 1:4 (5ml in 15ml water) @ 75 degrees and I got 37, 28, 33, 23, and 33. The two shorter ones were the second side of the strip dipped so I'm tossing those as valid numbers. I'm going to go with 33 seconds which gives me a development time of 11 minutes. I guess I'll process my next roll at this time and see what happens.

trythis · Dec 7, 2016

I will throw in my opinion as Kodalith Ortho

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 8, 2016

trythis said:
I will throw in my opinion as Kodalith Ortho

+1 Agree. Just remember. Thats the film I tested. Similar experience and I remember being like "uuh? wtf?" No image at all.

trythis · Dec 8, 2016

This is that same film shot at EI 12. It was probably developed in D76 since that is what I was using in 2014

At the bottom of this http://wp.me/p2ZmXf-3p8 52rolls.net post I did back in 2014 you can see some more examples. This is one of my favorite films because it renders metal perfectly.

Mystery 35 film bulk roll.

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