Mystery 1950s German b&w film emulsion

[Mike Crawford]

Hello

I’m wondering if anyone has heard of this film emulsion, especially German Photrio members. I’m doing some work for a client with some 30x24cm negatives. They are from around the 1950s and were taken by a German photographer. I have a feeling it might be a X Ray film, as it seems to be a matt emulsion on both sides, and the subject matter might be exposed by x ray, though not sure about this.

However, I noticed on one of the negatives a brand imprinted near the rebate. Close up scan attached. Bit difficult to read the signature logo, but might be Shleissner. Nothing coming up on a Google search except a 19th Century silversmith.

Anyone got any clues?
Many thanks

Mike

 

[Ian Grant]

Dr Schleussner, brand name Adox, the company were taken over by DuPont, they later sold the machinery and licensed the emulsions etc to EFKE.

Ian

 

[Mike Crawford]

Dr Schleussner, brand name Adox, the company were taken over by DuPont, they later sold the machinery and licensed the emulsions etc to EFKE.

Ian

Thanks Ian. That now rings some bells having looked into the history of Adox before. It's a fascinating story from the early days of photography to current Adox via US and Yugoslavia/Croatia. Nice one!

 

[Ian Grant]

Dr Schleussner Fotowerke GbmH introduced their new thin layer films in 1953, the UK distributor was Luminos, who upped sticks and moved to the US in 1961 becoming the Kentmere distributor there.

The Adox Kb/R/PL 14, 17, and 21 DIN films were made by EFKE from 1972, later being renamed with ASA speed numbers. oddly the speeds used in the names were always the Tungsten light speed, not Daylight.

Here in the UK it's relatively easy to gain a lot from the annual BJP Almanacs, and in the early 1950s Draconian Import restrictions imposed after WWII were only slowly being lifted, the London camera shop owner and author (books and magazine articles) HS Newcombe lamented the lack of good new equipment. Film and paper were also in short supply.

So it's probably not surprising to have LF work shot on X-ray or similar film in Germany as they recovered from WWII. To put things in context I remember finding the old rationed powdered milk tins when we moved house in 1959, they had been issued for my sister in 1956, my father used them for storage containers. My parents told me that rationing of eggs, bread, cheese etc was only eased the year I was born 1954, and some of it was tighter after the war compared to during the war. Essentially agriculture had collapsed in Germany and Holland, so we were exporting food to prevent starvation.

These musings have been an eye-opener, as they explain the gap in British photo history, something that needs exploring.

Ian

 

[AgX]

Schleussner Doneo was a doublesided, unsensitized X-ray film. But it is likely that different films existed under the Doneo designation.

 

[AgX]

So it's probably not surprising to have LF work shot on X-ray or similar film in Germany as they recovered from WWII.

I never heard of such.

The bad years film-wise in West-Germany were the late 40's. However then medical X-ray films got a higher priority at manufacture. Misusing medical X-ray for non-medical photography seems most unlikely to me.

 

[AgX]

Might be Shleissner.

Be aware that "Sh" does not exist in German.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Schleussner Doneo was a doublesided, unsensitized X-ray film. But it is likely that different films existed under the Doneo designation.

Unsensitised? Then how did it work?

 

[Ian Grant]

I never heard of such.

The bad years film-wise in West-Germany were the late 40's. However then medical X-ray films got a higher priority at manufacture. Misusing medical X-ray for non-medical photography seems most unlikely to me.

It depends on the companies, Compur for instance were very badly hit in air raids. Prontor becoming dominant for a while and it's this period after WWII to the early to mid 1950s.

Then you have to look at the German film and paper manufacturers who went out of business during WWII, it's not something I've had an interest in, but have noticed

Unsensitised? Then how did it work?

I think he means not specifically dye sensitised for a specific spectral range. During WWII Germany would have need cheap X-ray film for field and front line hospitals and a lot of it.

Ian

 

[Europan]

Unsensitised? Then how did it work?

Films don’t need to be sensitised beyond the natural sensitivity of silver halides for Röntgen or X rays. The short-wavelength or high-impact energy gives a latent image easily. You have perhaps heard of the danger X rays offer to a film in the luggage, they permeate almost everything.

Else you simply have an image that corresponds to the UV, violet, and blue radiation of the object.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Films don’t need to be sensitised beyond the natural sensitivity of silver halides for Röntgen or X rays. The short-wavelength or high-impact energy gives a latent image easily. You have perhaps heard of the danger X rays offer to a film in the luggage, they permeate almost everything.

Well of course! What was I thinking?

 

[Europan]

Everything’s fine, anyone can have a glitch at times.

 

[Ian Grant]

Everything’s fine, anyone can have a glitch at times.

Andrew doesn't need a glitch in time. Just a touch wood he's the right longitude, . . . . . . . .

Ian

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Had a major brain fart. I shoot X-RAY often. I should know better...

 

[AgX]

Unsensitised? Then how did it work?

There is no need for spectral sensitisation when it comes to X-rays. But "silver-rich" film is the basic approach.

However in medical X-raying for different reasons partially a different approach was made where intensifying foils were added, that were the actual X-ray absorber, and that showed luminescence, beyond the blue, and here of course spectral sensitisation of the halide film was needed.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Had a major brain fart. I shoot X-RAY often. I should know better...

So much for great minds! Ha-ha! Just joking, since my mind is in a state of constant when it comes to brain-farting.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello

I’m wondering if anyone has heard of this film emulsion, especially German Photrio members. I’m doing some work for a client with some 30x24cm negatives. They are from around the 1950s and were taken by a German photographer. I have a feeling it might be a X Ray film, as it seems to be a matt emulsion on both sides, and the subject matter might be exposed by x ray, though not sure about this.

However, I noticed on one of the negatives a brand imprinted near the rebate. Close up scan attached. Bit difficult to read the signature logo, but might be Shleissner. Nothing coming up on a Google search except a 19th Century silversmith.

Anyone got any clues?
Many thanks

Mike


View attachment 314616

all I can say, it could lso be read as 'Schleussner'.

 

[AgX]

Ralph, more so as Schleussner manufactured Doneo designated films.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

There is no need for spectral sensitisation when it comes to X-rays. But "silver-rich" film is the basic approach.

However in medical X-raying for different reasons partially a different approach was made where intensifying foils were added, that were the actual X-ray absorber, and that showed luminescence, beyond the blue, and here of course spectral sensitisation of the halide film was needed.

Yes thank you. It's been answered. Thanks for the extra details.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

So much for great minds! Ha-ha! Just joking, since my mind is in a state of constant when it comes to brain-farting.

 

[Mike Crawford]

Schleussner Doneo was a doublesided, unsensitized X-ray film. But it is likely that different films existed under the Doneo designation.

Thanks. Just what I thought it might be!

 

[Mike Crawford]

Thanks everyone for feedback, all really interesting. I found some advertising for it online, mostly in a catalogue for industrial test products. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm:978-3-642-99733-4/1.pdf

Wonder if it may have been used more as a X Ray film for industrial testing rather than medical.

 

[AgX]

But it was mentioned for medical use too.