My scanning conundrum

I use a Mac and just updated to Big Sur. I may update to the latest soon as well (mostly to keep the security updated). The problem with this is that I have an Epson Perfection 4870 Photo. I bought it in 2004 and it's scanned at least 50,000 files (mostly photography-related, but not exclusively). I can't imagine it will last too much longer - in technology terms, it's ancient. After the update, EpsonScan cannot be made to work. At the age of the scanner, I don't want to buy software to make it work well. I might be able to scan from within Elements or Photos, but I haven't tried.
Should I bite the bullet and buy a V850? Should I use my dSLR on my portatrace light panel for web use and send good ones out for drum scans? How many images would it take for drum scanning to cost as much as buying the 850? Yes, I know drum scanning is far better, but I don't usually get huge prints made anyway. I shoot more 120 and 4x5 than 35mm, but could need to scan pretty much any size.
My main uses for scans are to post things on Instagram and to submit images for juried shows. I occasionally get prints made from scans, but only from color film which I don't shoot that often. The toughest thing for me right now is getting a good file from a fiber print - I can't make them flat enough to photograph them.
Any advice from others with similar usage?

I believe Epson has an updated, new software for Apple. Have you tried it.

Maybe this page will help.
https://epson.com/s0/macOS-12-Monterey-Support/s/SPT_MONTEREY-NS

I used a V600 for ten years for MF and 35mm. I bought a V850 when I started shooting 4x5. It does a great job.

4x5 samples of mine: chromes https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157715763486212
4x5 BW https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157714124881023
Comparison of my V850 and someone's Howtek 8000 drum scanner. https://www.largeformatphotography....-Epson-V850-flatbed-scanners&highlight=howtek

Alan Edward Klein said:

I believe Epson has an updated, new software for Apple. Have you tried it.

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There are drivers, but only for it to run from other software (like from Image Capture by Apple). It doesn't even give me the option of Epson Scan 2 like it does for the V850. The 4870 is just too old for them to care enough to write it into newer apps.

Have you tried VueScan? Ed Hamrick maintains an exceptional degree of compatibility between older hardware and newer operating systems.

https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/epson_perfection_4870.html#technical-information

As you can see from my other thread, even if you bought a V850, Epson Scan 2 has its inherent issues. However, I understand that the new Epson scanners come bundled with Silverfast (IIRC, when I bought my V750 over a decade ago, it came bundled with Silverfast, but I liked Epson Scan better).

Oren Grad said:

Have you tried VueScan? Ed Hamrick maintains an exceptional degree of compatibility between older hardware and newer operating systems.

https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/epson_perfection_4870.html#technical-information

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I'd like to avoid buying software to run an almost 20 year old scanner. I'm kinda surprised it still works at all.

Duceman said:

As you can see from my other thread, even if you bought a V850, Epson Scan 2 has its inherent issues. However, I understand that the new Epson scanners come bundled with Silverfast (IIRC, when I bought my V750 over a decade ago, it came bundled with Silverfast, but I liked Epson Scan better).

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Yeah, I may try Silverfast if I end up getting the V850 (it does come with it). When I got my 4870, I was using a Win2000 machine. When I switched to a Mac, EpsonScan was the only one that worked. Once I got used to it, I liked it. Ah well, guess I'll need to learn new things.


I did try Apple's Image Capture and it didn't work. I was able to scan a print from Elements, though. The preview is very small, but at least it worked. Maybe it's just time to save my pennies (the V850 is around $1,000).

I had an old 4870 until a very close lightning strike fried all our electronics. I replaced it with the 850. Both used with Silverfast Ai Studio. I don't really see any major differences in the scans B&W 120 and 4x5. I still prefer the film holders of the 4870 and one of these days will figure out a way to use them. They hold strips of 4 and the 850 holders hold strips of 3 so you will have to cut old negatives although there is a way to put the film on the glass. Try to find drivers and software and use your 4870 until it dies. Probably it will need bulbs but otherwise work.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

I picked up a new M1 Mac not too long ago and my Canon 9950 scanner wouldn't work on it. Emailed Hamrick and he wrote back that the 32/64 bit thing did it in since there weren't drivers for it. I think that is what he wrote. I guess some older scanners are not compatible anymore with Macs due to that limitation. My other two flatbeds work though. They are newer. Maybe that has something to do with your issue.

winger said:

I'd like to avoid buying software to run an almost 20 year old scanner. I'm kinda surprised it still works at all.

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I normally recommend switching to camera digitizing for those who are mainly interested in scanning 35mm film - but for larger negatives and especially for prints, I think a flatbed scanner should do a good job for you.

One nice thing about VueScan is that it works with MANY different scanners, including your <Epson 4870> So, if the 4870 dies, you can probably continue to use VueScan with your new scanner, without having to learn whatever new software that comes with it.

Personally, I would not buy any new scanner without first checking to see if it can be used with VueScan, because I know there will come a day when the scanner manufacturer will quit offering support. VueScan allowed me to use a Minolta film scanner long after Minolta abandoned it. It was finally the lack of a firewire port in newer Macs that finished off the Minolta, which was still working 18 years after I bought it.

Thanks all!

runswithsizzers said:

IIt was finally the lack of a firewire port in newer Macs that finished off the Minolta, which was still working 18 years after I bought it.

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Scanner should still work with Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter. No?

brbo said:

Scanner should still work with Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter. No?

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Interesting question. I may have to test that theory one day.

The Minolta Dimage Scan Elite F-2900 came with an Ultra SCSI interface which wotked with the old G4 Mac I was using in 2002. When Apple dropped SCSI support, I bought a RATOX FR1SX SCSI-to-Firewire adapter that worked with Firewire 400. Then Apple switched to Firewire 800, so I added another adaptor for FW400-to-FW800. And now, I would need a Firewire 800-to-Thunderbolt adaptor. I do have one, but it is for Thunderbolt 2, and my present iMac has Thunderbolt 3, so I may need yet another adapter(?) I have not investigated that.

I really don't know how many adaptors can be daisy-chained, or what the weakest link in that chain would be. I do still have an old Apple G4 computer in a closet somewhere, so I guess I could set up a dedicated film scanning station and go back to straight SCSI, if I felt the need to do so.

But at some point, I came to the conclusion that photographing my negatives with a digital camera might be a more practical solution than trying to keep the old Minolta film scanner up and running. And for b&w negatives and slide film, I have found that to be true. With color negative film, I am less certain. The question for me is, which software does a better job of inverting the color negatives to positive: Vuescan, used with the Minolta film scanner - or Negative Lab Pro which I use with my "camera-scans"?

My saga illustrates the kinds of technical issues that must be solved by those who are trying to use film scanners these days, most of which are no longer supported by either the manufacturers of the scanner or by modern computers. Which is why I think camera scanning is the more future-proof path, going forward. If you have a decent film scanner, sure, keep it going as long as you can. But would I buy a dedicated film scanner today? Given the cost and uncertainty of what is available today, probably not. Would I buy a flatbed scanner for digitizing film today? For medium format and sheet film? Sure. For 35mm? The answer is much less clear.

I was completely happy with a 4870 until I need to scan 10x8 negatives. At that point I bought a V850. I'd still use the 4870 if it weren't for that adventure into 10x8, though it could scan a 10x8 paper negative, just not a 10x8 transparent negative. I could scan 4x5 quite happily with FlexColor on a Flextight X1. The software is updatable, and always replaceable with VueScan. If I were starting out these days with 10x8, I probably wouldn't even install Epson Scan; I'd just use VueScan in the Pro form so I would get free permanent updates for all the scanners it supports.

runswithsizzers said:

The Minolta Dimage Scan Elite F-2900 came with an Ultra SCSI interface which wotked with the old G4 Mac I was using in 2002. When Apple dropped SCSI support, I bought a RATOX FR1SX SCSI-to-Firewire adapter that worked with Firewire 400. Then Apple switched to Firewire 800, so I added another adaptor for FW400-to-FW800. And now, I would need a Firewire 800-to-Thunderbolt adaptor. I do have one, but it is for Thunderbolt 2, and my present iMac has Thunderbolt 3, so I may need yet another adapter(?) I have not investigated that.

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Ratoc will be a problem since it needs a driver. And that driver won't work on modern macOS.

Bethe - I upgraded from an Epson 4990 to a V850 last year, still using CS6 (not ready to rent software yet, and just enough need for the suite), so I'm running os 10.12.6.
I scan 35mm, 6x6, and 4x5. The trick for sharpness (for me) is to scan to tiff (without sharpening by the scanner), then open in camera raw and apply sharpening there. I scan most things to 20" on the short side, by whatever length, all 16bit (which helps tremendously on skys with larger formats), so I had to buy a small upgrade to SF to get 16bit tiffs.
I use the Silverfast software and love it. I used the Epson software with the 4990, because it was simpler, but I find the SF to be much more comprehensive in image control (I scan like I print, getting as close as I can to final look), and SF is far more stable than Epson software. I also don't use the film holders and I don't place the negs on the glass, but that's another story.
I think the way you will like is the V850, given the range in formats you have, it's just a question of money.

This post seems odd as Here are the drivers for up to MacOS 12 Release in Jan 2021 https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/...oto/s/SPT_B11B163011?review-filter=macOS+11.x

seems your problem is installing it for some reason

Also if you have a windows machine there is now a solution to share a windows TWAIN or WIA scanner with macOS . Look at Twain2AirScan at {URL removed}

Mark Martinez said:

This post seems odd as Here are the drivers for up to MacOS 12 Release in Jan 2021 https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/...oto/s/SPT_B11B163011?review-filter=macOS+11.x

seems your problem is installing it for some reason

Also if you have a windows machine there is now a solution to share a windows TWAIN or WIA scanner with macOS . Look at Twain2AirScan at {URL removed}

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While the driver is there, it does not include EpsonScan. I can use a very scaled down import feature within something built in to the MacOS, but it didn't work well for me. I'd been using EpsonScan for 15 years and knew it fairly well, but that's the part that wasn't updated for the 64-bit requirement (and their new version doesn't work with my ancient scanner).

I just bought VueScan, figuring it was at least less costly than a V850 for now. I had much more control over the tones and colors in EpsonScan, but it'll work for now, I guess.