My printer died. Need a new printer for DNs.

Dan Pavel · Nov 3, 2019

Thanks Tom!
I already did all you suggest but could only recover some of the print heads, not all of them. I have my cleaning solution from a professional printers repair workshop. I have even attached to a syringe a part cut from an ink cartridge and pumped ink. I might have damaged something by doing it (or it was already damaged) because the printer loses ink now in the ink cartridges assembly - the gray inks that doesn't print at all.
I'll certainly wet that clapping station parts from now on my new printer. What's curious is that when you wet them the cleaning solution doesn't stay there, it's completely absorbed after a while.
I'll disassemble the older sc-p600 and take some parts out, as replacements, before throwing it. Especially the print heads assembly (I'll try to clean it), the ink tubes, the pomp and the touch screen.

radiant · Jan 21, 2020

What would be cheapest printer that would work in DN printing OK? I would like to try but not keen to buy 500€ printer.

For example would Canon Pixma TS705 be enough?

Adrian Bacon · Jan 21, 2020

Dan Pavel said:
After 3 weeks of resting unused my Epson SC-P600 printer died (after only 2 and a half years of service). The print heads are severally clogged - no black, yellow and light gray inks appear in prints. The service man said it is not recoverable and a new print head costs almost as mach as a new printer. It was a nice photo-printer while it worked and it was my printer for DNs. Its "Advanced B&W Photo" mode was perfect for DNs. I need to buy a new printer now and I am not sure what to get. I don't want to risk to be forced to replace it after only 2-3 years again. What printer would you recommend? I need a good photo printer to be used both for photos on paper and Digital Negatives with an A3 max. format. It shouldn't cost more than 700-800$.
I am looking at a Canon Pixma Pro-100s. Is anybody using a Pro-100s for DNs? How it delivers? Does it has a dedicated B&W mode using only black and gray inks? Is the UV opacity of the inks good enough?
What would be your recommendation?

I use the Pro-1000, it's quite good as a pigment printer. I think the Pro-100 is dye based, so not sure how well that would work for DNs, but the Pigment based printer is pretty good, though it might be a bit out of your budget as the last time I checked the Pro-1000 was running for ~$1000. The good news is the heads are designed to be user replaced, and a new set of heads doesn't cost nearly as much as a new printer.

All that being said, the key to long service life is printing something at least every week. If you're getting clogged heads, you're not printing enough. Even if it's a little 4x6 or 5x7 waste print that has the full gamut of colors, a little bit of regular use makes the printer last a lot longer.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 21, 2020

ced said:
Dan I 2nd the idea of humidification of the heads there are a few vids on Ytube (I think demineralised water should be okay).
Good luck...

how long does it take to flush the ink out?

Smaug01 · Feb 5, 2020

Dan, have you decided how to proceed yet?

I was printer shopping a month or so ago. All the research suggested that I should get a high-end Canon. From the reviews, Epsons seem to be unreliable and clog-prone, but brilliant when working.

On the advice of some fellows from another group (Negative Positives Podcast Facebook group) I decided to try an HP Tango Terra and try their Instant Ink Program. Just looking at specs, it's not as good as the high end Canons or Epsons: It has a tri-color cartridge and a black cartridge. Looking at the prints though, it's impressive. It doesn't matter that tri-color is inefficient compared to 7 or 8 different tanks, because the cost of ink is substantially cut down. I pay $3 a month for 50 prints, no matter what the prints are. (4x6 photo, color or B&W, 8x10 photo, B&W document...all the same) One doesn't own the Instant Ink cartridges, HP does. You can still buy regular cartridges in stores if you decide to get out of The Program. The first two months, I get 300 prints' worth of ink per month. Prints from a smartphone get free ink. The user still buys his own paper, so he won't go nuts.

The cartridge sends data to the printer, which then sends data to HP through the home WiFi. HP knows when I'm running low and I have a new cartridge before I run out.

The prints look great, and are on par with prints I'd get from a good outlab like MPix. It's more limited by the paper quality I purchase than the capability of the printer.

There are a few different versions of the Tango printer:
Tango - Basic model ($100 as of this writing)
Tango X - Comes with a cute hinged fabric cover that women like ($150 as of this writing)
Tango Terra - Environmentally-friendly version, made with 100% recycled plastics and recyclable packaging; $160 as of this writing

The printer is small and is wireless only. WiFi or Bluetooth. It's easy to use from one's phone. The HP apps are good.

This is the printer I dreamed of in the 90s, when Canon was selling their bubblejets for $60 and ink cartridges for $30 that would last about 20 prints and clog after a week of disuse. Instead of giving away printers and gouging for ink, they're selling good printers at a fair price and offering ink at a fair and low price through subscription. (they get to recycle and re-use the ink cartridges, and the mailers are included in the subscription)

What made me think of this is that you started out with clogged heads being the main issue. With the HP Instant Ink, the heads are integral to the cartridge, so if they clog, it's not my problem. It's in their best interest to make them clog-free.

I have no affiliation to HP; just a happy customer. I thought you might want to try the $160 option before dropping a grand.

Dan Pavel · Feb 6, 2020

Thanks for your suggestion Jeremy but I'm afraid it comes too late for me - I have already purchased a new Epson SC-P600 as a replacement for the older one.
I know HPs are very reliable. I own an older A1 HP plotter and, in spite of being not used for several years, I've managed to make it work again perfectly after replacing 3 of its ( not very expensive) 6 print heads.

radiant · Feb 6, 2020

Would cheaper printers such as : Pixma ix6850 https://www.canon-europe.com/printers/inkjet/pixma/pixma_ix6850/ or Pixma ts705 https://www.canon-europe.com/printers/pixma-ts705/ do any acceptable digital negatives? I think my budget limit would be at Pixma ip8750 https://www.canon-europe.com/printers/inkjet/pixma/pixma_ip8750/specification.html

Any help really appreciated. It's totally impossible to choose printer without any experience on DN printing..

Smaug01 · Feb 10, 2020

Dan Pavel said:
Thanks for your suggestion Jeremy but I'm afraid it comes too late for me - I have already purchased a new Epson SC-P600 as a replacement for the older one.
I know HPs are very reliable. I own an older A1 HP plotter and, in spite of being not used for several years, I've managed to make it work again perfectly after replacing 3 of its ( not very expensive) 6 print heads.

In that case, I recommend MPix.

I had them do a few copies of a photo book that I handed out as Christmas gifts this past year. The B&W looked great, and most of the book was B&W.

I also ordered Christmas cards from them (B&W) which looked great.

I don't know if it is worth it to order from a US-based lab if you're in Romania. There have got to be some high quality labs closer to you. If not in Romania, then Germany for sure.

Horatio · Mar 21, 2020

Smaug01 said:
Dan, have you decided how to proceed yet?

I was printer shopping a month or so ago. All the research suggested that I should get a high-end Canon. From the reviews, Epsons seem to be unreliable and clog-prone, but brilliant when working.

On the advice of some fellows from another group (Negative Positives Podcast Facebook group) I decided to try an HP Tango Terra and try their Instant Ink Program. Just looking at specs, it's not as good as the high end Canons or Epsons: It has a tri-color cartridge and a black cartridge. Looking at the prints though, it's impressive. It doesn't matter that tri-color is inefficient compared to 7 or 8 different tanks, because the cost of ink is substantially cut down. I pay $3 a month for 50 prints, no matter what the prints are. (4x6 photo, color or B&W, 8x10 photo, B&W document...all the same) One doesn't own the Instant Ink cartridges, HP does. You can still buy regular cartridges in stores if you decide to get out of The Program. The first two months, I get 300 prints' worth of ink per month. Prints from a smartphone get free ink. The user still buys his own paper, so he won't go nuts.

The cartridge sends data to the printer, which then sends data to HP through the home WiFi. HP knows when I'm running low and I have a new cartridge before I run out.

The prints look great, and are on par with prints I'd get from a good outlab like MPix. It's more limited by the paper quality I purchase than the capability of the printer.

There are a few different versions of the Tango printer:
Tango - Basic model ($100 as of this writing)
Tango X - Comes with a cute hinged fabric cover that women like ($150 as of this writing)
Tango Terra - Environmentally-friendly version, made with 100% recycled plastics and recyclable packaging; $160 as of this writing

The printer is small and is wireless only. WiFi or Bluetooth. It's easy to use from one's phone. The HP apps are good.

This is the printer I dreamed of in the 90s, when Canon was selling their bubblejets for $60 and ink cartridges for $30 that would last about 20 prints and clog after a week of disuse. Instead of giving away printers and gouging for ink, they're selling good printers at a fair price and offering ink at a fair and low price through subscription. (they get to recycle and re-use the ink cartridges, and the mailers are included in the subscription)

What made me think of this is that you started out with clogged heads being the main issue. With the HP Instant Ink, the heads are integral to the cartridge, so if they clog, it's not my problem. It's in their best interest to make them clog-free.

I have no affiliation to HP; just a happy customer. I thought you might want to try the $160 option before dropping a grand.

Are you printing digital negatives with this HP?

bc_the_path · Apr 17, 2020

I had been using a fine Epson photo-printer (R2880) some years ago for printing transparencies as digital negatives. Unfortunately, I ruined it by a long neglect, which killed the head.

Recently, I purchased a simpler Epson photo-printer (L805) which satisfies all my photo printing needs at home. To my surprise, it simply can not print transparencies (due to its printing technology&inks, I guess). I had no doubts, while buying it, that it could print digital negatives without problem. A costly mistake as I am a retired recently.

Now, I do need to print digital negatives for cyanotype and perhaps for van Dykes (and, perhaps kallitypes). My budget is very low and I will be using the printer "only" for this particular purpose. The printer has to live happily with Linux, by the way.

Locally, I can get a printer like HP Smart Tank 515 (or, 530) or Epson Ecotank L3160 for example.
Unfortunately, and to my surprise again, none of the current inkjet printers I can afford list "transparency" as a media they can print on (including the ones above).
I know that "some" inexpensive inkjet printers "can" print nicely on transparencies even when their specs fail to list it. But, I am not in a position to handle that risk.

I should be most happy to hear some advice on the use of current inkjets.
I am NOT looking for best quality.
I have the chemicals, I have the papers and transparencies and, most importantly, I have time.
I only need an affordable printer for home use that can print acceptable digital negatives.
Reading this thread, I understand that I am not alone in this position.

Any suggestions?

jim10219 · Apr 17, 2020

bc_the_path said:
I had been using a fine Epson photo-printer (R2880) some years ago for printing transparencies as digital negatives. Unfortunately, I ruined it by a long neglect, which killed the head.

Recently, I purchased a simpler Epson photo-printer (L805) which satisfies all my photo printing needs at home. To my surprise, it simply can not print transparencies (due to its printing technology&inks, I guess). I had no doubts, while buying it, that it could print digital negatives without problem. A costly mistake as I am a retired recently.

Now, I do need to print digital negatives for cyanotype and perhaps for van Dykes (and, perhaps kallitypes). My budget is very low and I will be using the printer "only" for this particular purpose. The printer has to live happily with Linux, by the way.

Locally, I can get a printer like HP Smart Tank 515 (or, 530) or Epson Ecotank L3160 for example.
Unfortunately, and to my surprise again, none of the current inkjet printers I can afford list "transparency" as a media they can print on (including the ones above).
I know that "some" inexpensive inkjet printers "can" print nicely on transparencies even when their specs fail to list it. But, I am not in a position to handle that risk.

I should be most happy to hear some advice on the use of current inkjets.
I am NOT looking for best quality.
I have the chemicals, I have the papers and transparencies and, most importantly, I have time.
I only need an affordable printer for home use that can print acceptable digital negatives.
Reading this thread, I understand that I am not alone in this position.

Any suggestions?

Find a pigment, not dye, based printer. Laser printers also work pretty well for digital negatives (they are all pigment based), though you usually get less tonal scale and image sharpness with them, so they don't work well for regular photos But for a lot of alternative processes where you won't get a long tonal scale or super high resolution anyway, this doesn't matter.

Also, make sure you find a transparency paper that is designed to work with your printer before you buy the printer. And when you do print a digital negative, make sure you print on the right side of that transparency paper (some are designed to only print on one side). If you print on the wrong side, it'll never dry and the ink will just run off. Laser printers require special transparency paper that's different from inkjet transparency paper (it has to stand up to the fuser temperatures). And some printers require a transparency paper with an opaque leading edge so the printer can "see" the transparency. Some also require a special coating designed for that type of ink so that the ink will absorb into it so it can dry. So before you buy a printer, find out if there's a transparency paper specifically designed to work with it, and find out how much it costs (because you don't want to go broke buying transparency paper, as you'll want to do a lot of experimentation).

That's really all you need to look out for. Pigment based and has transparency paper available. If you meet those two qualifications, you'll be good go. If you want to get super serious with it there are other things to consider, but that's all you need to know to get started and make some nice looking alternative process prints that you can be proud of.

Dan Pavel · Apr 17, 2020

Horatio said:
Are you printing digital negatives with this HP?

I did some time ago. It worked acceptable with black ink and better with a green combination of inks. But I have only tried it with the older Staedtler Lumocolor transparency film, never with Pictorico.

bc_the_path · Apr 17, 2020

jim10219 said:
Find a pigment, not dye, based printer. Laser printers also work pretty well for digital negatives (they are all pigment based), though you usually get less tonal scale and image sharpness with them, so they don't work well for regular photos But for a lot of alternative processes where you won't get a long tonal scale or super high resolution anyway, this doesn't matter.

Also, make sure you find a transparency paper that is designed to work with your printer before you buy the printer. And when you do print a digital negative, make sure you print on the right side of that transparency paper (some are designed to only print on one side). If you print on the wrong side, it'll never dry and the ink will just run off. Laser printers require special transparency paper that's different from inkjet transparency paper (it has to stand up to the fuser temperatures). And some printers require a transparency paper with an opaque leading edge so the printer can "see" the transparency. Some also require a special coating designed for that type of ink so that the ink will absorb into it so it can dry. So before you buy a printer, find out if there's a transparency paper specifically designed to work with it, and find out how much it costs (because you don't want to go broke buying transparency paper, as you'll want to do a lot of experimentation).

That's really all you need to look out for. Pigment based and has transparency paper available. If you meet those two qualifications, you'll be good go. If you want to get super serious with it there are other things to consider, but that's all you need to know to get started and make some nice looking alternative process prints that you can be proud of.

Jim, many thanks for your detailed advice. That is exactly what I needed to hear. Now I know what to look for. I hope I can find a printer/paper combination within reach, geographically and financially.

My printer died. Need a new printer for DNs.

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