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My paper is speaking to me!

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2F/2F

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Interesting...this is the first time this has ever happened to me.

I just finished doing some lith printing on some old mystery paper. It's in a DuPont Varigram 8-1/2x11 box, but the paper itself is 8x10, so who knows what it is. Whatever is was, it didn't go too crazy using lith methods. It was predictable infectious development with a pretty sensitive snatch point somewhere between 4 and 6 minutes, exposure times of 2 minutes at f/4, but pretty normal tonally. Just a little creamy in the highlights.

At any rate, this is all beside the point.

On my second sheet, I noticed that the strange fizzing noise I had heard was happening again at the same point in the process. It started about 30 seconds into the stop bath, and lasted about another 20-30 seconds before stopping. I assumed it had been pipes the first time, but this time I put my ear to the tray, and sure enough that's where it was coming from. I assumed that for some reason beyond my chemical understanding, the paper was releasing gases due to something the stop was doing.

Oh well, I figured. The prints were fine, so I kept printing. Every time a print was in the stop, it would happen again right on schedule.

At the end of the session, with the lights on, I decided to process my focusing sheet to investigate further. When it happened in the light, I saw that the bubbles were all coming out of two points (one point each on two edges, about a half inch in from the corners). The points of origin were right on the edge of the paper. The bubbles emerged in a very thin, very neat stream.

What's the deal? Is this by design? It's not a problem. I am just a bit curious.
 
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Monophoto

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I've also seen this happen, but not recently.

When I first started in the darkroom, I used a lot of Kodak Polycontrast, Kodabromide, and Ektalure, with Dektol developer and Kodak Indicator stop, and invariably there would be a fizzing noise in the stop that I thought was simply an indication of the vigor of the reaction between the high-pH developer and the low-pH stop. In fact, I used the sound as an indication - when the sound stopped, I assumed that the print was sufficiently stopped to be moved to the fixer.

Today, I tend to use mostly Ilford and Kentmere papers, and Sprint developer and stop, and I don't get the noise. I'm not sure if the reason is the difference in chemistry or the difference in paper. But the fact that 2F is getting noise with a 'clasic' paper causes me to wonder if the phenomenon could be paper-related.
 
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2F/2F

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I use Ilford MGFB and I get the fizzing too

Never bothered me that much

Martin

Interesting. I have used that paper, and plenty of others, but this has never occurred. I wonder what causes it with some folks and not with others.

Perhaps it would make sense that development creates gases that get trapped between the emulsion and the base, and the stop squeezes them out chemically. Perhaps certain developers of certain pH levels do this more than others. Or perhaps the temp is really the culprit. (I am using my imagination here.)

It can really fizz away all it wants. It won't bother me. I am just curious...not only as to what causes it, but why it has never happened before.
 
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Kino

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When I first started using a darkroom in the 70's, I had ceramic coated steel trays and the paper would practically scream when you plunged it into the stop bath, especially if the room was cold!

They were all Kodak products back then, now I use mostly Illford and don't hear it, but maybe plastic trays deaden the sound...
 

Martin Aislabie

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I think most paper/dev combinations I use do it

With the Radio playing you would never hear it

Martin
 

Ole

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I've heard it too - with a water stop.
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Ever mixed vinegar and baking soda together? That's the same thing happening.

Whatever carbonate alkali there is in your developer, it's throwing away CO2 when reacting with the acid stop bath.

Because FB paper absorbs developer in the base, the pressure mounts within the paper, and so your paper "farts" CO2 from the easiest hole it can find...
 
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Because FB paper absorbs developer in the base, the pressure mounts within the paper, and so your paper "farts" CO2 from the easiest hole it can find...

May I quote that? It's about the funniest line in any photography discussion I've ever come across... ROFL

I've had that noise too, by the way. It's rather strange to listen to, like the paper's about to implode.

Thanks,
- Thomas
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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May I quote that? It's about the funniest line in any photography discussion I've ever come across... ROFL

I've had that noise too, by the way. It's rather strange to listen to, like the paper's about to implode.

Thanks,
- Thomas

Hehe, as long as you accompany the quote with yours: "funniest line in any photography discussion..." :D
 

Ole

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... Whatever carbonate alkali there is in your developer, it's throwing away CO2 when reacting with the acid stop bath. ...

Which would be a good explanation - but as I said in th epost just before this, I have heard it even using water stop.
 

Photo Engineer

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And, it does not cause air bubble defects! Yes, it is both CO2 and dissolved air in paper. If you put some types of paper into water or coat water on them, you will see air bubbles rise up in the water from the paper itself. I have some COT320 which is a beast to coat on for this reason.

You will rarely, if ever, see it with RC paper.

PE
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Which would be a good explanation - but as I said in th epost just before this, I have heard it even using water stop.

Damn you and your logic! I was trying to forget about that... :wink:

Maybe your water is slightly acidic?
 

Photo Engineer

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See my post above. It can happen (at a reduced rate) with water too. It depends on the type of paper (FB) that is in use.

PE
 

phenix

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Maybe your paper is trying to say: “I have enough of your vinegar or simple water! Give me a good wine instead!”
 

phenix

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Or: “Master, could you change the vinegar and the water into wine?”
 
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