My oh my what happened to Foma 400?

Chromium VI said:

The 100 has a gray emulsion, while the 400 and 200 are more of a green

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Something might be lost in translation here - can you explain what you mean with a grey/green 'emulsion'?
All of these films have a typical pale-grey appearance on the emulsion side before processing, and slate grey on the backside of the 135 format. During development, a green antihalation dye washes out of the 120 and the sheet film versions, but not the 135 format. The resulting silver image is monochrome on all these films, but of course can be tan/brown if developed in e.g. a staining developer like pyrocat. The spectral response on all of these films is panchromatic, but the Foma 400 product has a higher emphasis on the red part of the spectrum, which is especially visible in portraits.

This is the first time I hear about a supposed QA issue that involves a massive speed loss. I'm really not sure that's really the cause, although it's of course conceivable that somehow Foma 100 was confectioned as the 400 product. That would be a major mishap for sure. But so far, apart from an apparent underexposure scenario, there's very little to go on in terms of possible causes.

It's very annoying for sure to find a product doesn't perform as it usually does, for whatever reason.

At this point I treat the Foma films as special effects films and find they work well to set the mood for rainy, foggy, depressing weather or serious portraits. I've given up on relying on their technical side of things.

I don't find Foma films to be that bad. I rather like Foma 100 in 120 and 4X5. Also, 9X12cm Foma 100 is easily purchased when I want to shoot my old plate style 9X12cm cameras. I don't care for Foma 400 much and Foma 200 has the emulsion flaws so it's completely out for me. Their Ortho film in 120 is a nice film, but I haven't played with it enough to really rate it.

Foma and Kentmeyer have been my walk around film for a very long time. For travel I use Tmax 400.

Paul Howell said:

Foma and Kentmeyer have been my walk around film for a very long time. For travel I use Tmax 400.

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Yes, I'm back to using TMY2 400 and TMX 100 for now. For testing cameras and just horsing around it's either Foma 100 or Kentmere 100. I was using Ilford films, but due to the trade/tariff BS the price has not made Ilford films worth it for me. I do worry about Ilford hanging in there.

Harmon has stated that it will the last man standing in film production. I have not used a lot of ILford, even when I worked for a UK wire service we were issued TriX, HP 5 on occasion. I shoot a roll a week, so maybe I will move back to Tmax 400 or Trix. But, even so price for Tmax or TriX in 4X5 is beyond my means, so I will likely stick with Foma for LF.

Foma 100 (Arista Edu Ultra 100) had been my go-to film for testing cameras, quite reliable and low cost. I especially like their 120 film, for high contrast number on backing paper that are readable through red windows. I also use a lot of their iso 100 sheet film in various sizes, for high quality to price ratio.

Never liked Foma 400 and hardly ever use it.

Next time I order I will order Foma under the Artsia label as it will be different production run and if I get the effective film speed that I got with Foma branded. After thinking about for a few days it must be user error, no one else has had the same issue. Just don't know what I did or am doing wrong as I am still getting ISO 100 with F76+ from a just opened bottle and 50 with MCM 100. I will shoot an old roll of Foma 400 in 120 to see what I get.

Paul Howell said:

Next time I order I will order Foma under the Artsia label as it will be different production run and if I get the effective film speed that I got with Foma branded. After thinking about for a few days it must be user error, no one else has had the same issue. Just don't know what I did or am doing wrong as I am still getting ISO 100 with F76+ from a just opened bottle and 50 with MCM 100. I will shoot an old roll of Foma 400 in 120 to see what I get.

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Yup, that's worth a try and it might prove something.

This is probably something like "The China Syndrome" tap on your thermometer, see if it drops a couple degrees. Simple stuff that can trip you up. I wonder when, if I've ever, double checked my old GraLab timers??
And it's not like Foma or any other company can't put out products with problems.

I think the most likely thing is 100 speed film got packaged as 400.

Mistakes do get made occasionally, I once had C41 film in a Kodachrome cassette. Fortunately in Canada Kodachrome came with processing by Kodak included and it was caught in the processing stage so I got properly processed negatives back.

Well, in that case a roll was mislabeled, and I seem to be only one to have the issue. Back to I messed up, not sure what I did but will continue to figure it out.

mshchem said:

This is probably something like "The China Syndrome" tap on your thermometer, see if it drops a couple degrees. Simple stuff that can trip you up. I wonder when, if I've ever, double checked my old GraLab timers??
And it's not like Foma or any other company can't put out products with problems.

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The thermometer is an interest possibility and one I, myself, have experienced. I found myself having a problem with my negatives having much more contrast than normal. I tried several different things trying to find the cause. I wasted a lot of time, film and money being Sherlock Holmes. It wasn't until I brought my fancy and expensive Kodak professional lab thermometer up to the cottage to compare result with my fancy modern digital Paterson thermometer with probe. Yes, the digital thermometer I thought that could never give a false ready was indeed way off the mark. It went in the trash instantly and I haven't had a problem since. I remember kicking myself for not thinking about the digital much earlier. Live and learn I guess.

koraks said:

Something might be lost in translation here - can you explain what you mean with a grey/green 'emulsion'?

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Well, if you take a look at the emulsion side of foma [35mm] film, you will notice that the emulsion on the 100iso is basically grey, while on the 400 and 200, their emulsion have a green hue, I will try to find some snips and take picture side by side to see the difference

I've shot a lot of Foma 400 because I accidentally bought a couple hundred feet of it once for such a good price that I kept it even after I realized my mistake. I was never a big fan but over time I got to where I actually enjoy it for certain things. It's a very good portrait film for caucasian people because of its handling of redder skin tones, and can add some nice grain to other shots. I always shot it at EI200 with good results.

I know quality control has been occasionally not great, particularly in 120. But Foma products are still pretty good and frankly, thank goodness they are on the market. Hopefully this was a one-off issue with the 400 that @Paul Howell got.

Chromium VI said:

Well, if you take a look at the emulsion side of foma [35mm] film, you will notice that the emulsion on the 100iso is basically grey, while on the 400 and 200, their emulsion have a green hue, I will try to find some snips and take picture side by side to see the difference

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Technically, that isn't the emulsion that is contributing the differing colours.
It is the other components of a roll of film - predominantly the anti-halation components.

I did check my thermometers, I have three, a Kodak Color, Omega another mercury type, and a Test True dial type which is adjustable. All test within a degree of the Kodak Color. Using my old Kodak Master Darkroom Dataguide developer calculator take a loss of 4 degrees to lose a full stop.