My no good, very bad, stupidly designed Nikon speedlight

Huss · Jul 20, 2022

Got a shoot on Friday. Was testing my gear to make sure all a-ok before the main event. Specifcally I was testing my slave flash syncs - using a SB 700 as a slave, triggering it with an SB400 on my Nikon F6.
All was working great until I tried to remove the 400 and test more with an SB 500. The 400 would not release. The locking pin mechanism had broken!
Took it to my local repair dood - a Nikon trained tech - who used as many expletives as I did when shown my dilemma. He said that he's seen so many Nikon and Canon speedlights that have failed like this. The pin is spring loaded so when/if the mechanism fails - which it apparently often does, the only way to remove it is to get physical. He has to cut my SB400 off the camera to get into the locking mechanism to release it!

Remember the good old days when your strobe had the spinning wheel to lock it down? I do.
Going forward I will never use the lock lever on these Nikon Speedlights. Stoopid Nikon.

Wheel vs lever - the Sunpak was a freebie that works fine on any camera as a standard flash:

Pieter12 · Jul 20, 2022

I have always found the control interface on the SB 800 and 900 that I have to be awkward and not intuitive. It doesn't surprise me the locking mechanism would be a faulty design, too. Now I have something else to watch out for.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 20, 2022

Older was better, but the old flashes didn't have all the wiz bang features like wireless communication, although Canon did have that with the older flashes with an infrared transmitter I think it was. I had one back in the day but never used it. If the flash isn't on the camera I'd rather just use my Elinchrom.

Somewhere there is a bean counter that had a few too many beers with an engineer and they figured out that they could sell 50% more flashes if they added that pin system. Lol.

Pieter12 · Jul 20, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Somewhere there is a bean counter that had a few too many beers with an engineer and they figured out that they could sell 50% more flashes if they added that pin system.

Quite the opposite. I don't think most purchasers of those flash units really give the locking systems much thought, and it does cost more to engineer and manufacture than the old-fashioned screw lock. The lever is more convenient and doesn't usually get stuck like a screw-down wheel often can. Huss's issue is the first time I've read or heard of such a failure. But I would still like to see the fools who designed the operating interface for Nikon speedlights punished for their evil doings.

ic-racer · Jul 21, 2022

If I understand correctly the issue is with a Nikon speedlight that brings the locking pin upward with a lever rather than twist ring?

Sharktooth · Jul 21, 2022

Thanks for the heads-up. I remember having some issue with camera mounting Nikon flash units, that included a few cuss words, but I didn't look into it closely at the time. Now I'll take a more serious look.

Sharktooth · Jul 21, 2022

O.K., I checked some of my Nikon flash units, and here's what I found. My film era Nikon flashes all have the screw down locking ring. My digital era flashes (SB800, SB600, SB400) all have the locking pin as described in this thread.

My SB600 flash seems to be locking fine. In the unlocked position, the locking pin is not exposed, and will not block the flash from being removed. On my SB800, the locking pin still protrudes slightly in the unlocked position, and is a risk for jamming the flash in the shoe. The lock pin has a slight bevelled tip, but it still protrudes into the unbevelled zone when it's unlocked. My SB400 has the locking pin still protruding slightly in the unlocked position, but it's not quite as much as on the SB800.

The lock pin is always spring loaded, even if it's in the locked position, so you can push it in. Once it's in the camera, however, there is nothing to push the pin up and out of the hole, so it prevents you from removing the flash from the shoe. Here are some pictures to get an idea what I'm talking about.

After looking at this, I've no doubt that the SB800 is going to be a problem. I'm thinking about grinding off the tip of the locking pin with a dremel tool. The sad thing is that it truly does seem like a design defect, since nothing actually seems to be broken. The pin does extend and retract as expected, it just doesn't retract enough to completely prevent blocking flash removal.

Nikon definitely needs to be spanked!

AgX · Jul 21, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Quite the opposite. I don't think most purchasers of those flash units really give the locking systems much thought, and it does cost more to engineer and manufacture than the old-fashioned screw lock. The lever is more convenient and doesn't usually get stuck like a screw-down wheel often can.

The locking nut seems more failproof indeed, but I acquired a sample where the threads were twisted. Weird. I had to take off the foot and re-mount that nut.

Huss · Jul 21, 2022

ic-racer said:
If I understand correctly the issue is with a Nikon speedlight that brings the locking pin upward with a lever rather than twist ring?

Correct. The release mechanism broke and as the pin is spring loaded, it remained locked in.

Huss · Jul 21, 2022

Got the F6 back, just in time for a shoot tomorrow. Actually disappointed with this used to work for Nikon trained expert. I was prompted by someone else that the flash could have been taken apart as there are two screws underneath holding the casing together. So the flash did not have to be destroyed to remove, just disassembled. Too late now.
He also told me that the F6 does not work in TTL mode with my SB500 and SB700. Even though it does and I have used it as such..
Oh well.

Both my SB500 and 700 fit very snuggly and so will not need to be locked in anyway, so that's what I'm going to do going forward.

CMoore · Jul 21, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Older was better, but the old flashes didn't have all the wiz bang features like wireless communication, although Canon did have that with the older flashes with an infrared transmitter I think it was. I had one back in the day but never used it. If the flash isn't on the camera I'd rather just use my Elinchrom.

Somewhere there is a bean counter that had a few too many beers with an engineer and they figured out that they could sell 50% more flashes if they added that pin system. Lol.

Wiz Bang
I like the cut of your jib young fella...........

Sharktooth · Jul 28, 2022

In relation to my previous post, I decided to cut off a bit of the ends of the locking pin on my SB800 and SB400. On these two flash units, the tip of the locking pin remained exposed in the unlocked position. This could make it difficult to remove the flash from the camera.

I used a dremel tool (rotary tool) with a cutoff wheel on the end. I used the cutoff wheel so I could side load the pin for the cut. If you end load the pin it will just push in, so you may not be able to do it by trying to sand the tip.

Here are some pictures to see the outcome. I'm happy with the results, since now both flashes go on and off easily when unlocked, and have solid retention when locked.

Sirius Glass · Jul 28, 2022

I leave my SB800 off the camera until I need it and remove it as soon as I am finished with it. I never had these problems.

mshchem · Jul 28, 2022

SB 800 and SB 900. Never any issues. I use these more often than not with digital bodies. I have used with F5 bodies no troubles. I can agree that modern flash units can be confusing as hell. I feel like I need a refresher training course everytime I go to use these things.

Sharktooth · Jul 28, 2022

It's a simple enough check. With the flash off the camera and held in your hand, activate the flash lock/unlock lever. The locking pin extends and retracts when you activate the flash lock/unlock lever. With the lock/unlock lever in the "unlocked" position, the locking pin should not protrude above the flash mount surface. If the lock pin still protrudes slightly above the flash mount surface in the "unlocked" position, you may not be able to remove the flash from the camera.

The lever lock isn't a "clamping" interface like the older screw ring. The locking pin drops into a hole in the camera flash shoe when the lever is moved to the lock position. When the locking pin is in the camera shoe hole, it prevents you from pulling the flash rearward, so the flash can't fall out accidentally (if you tilt the camera back, for example). This all works well until you go to remove the flash. If that locking pin does not withdraw completely from the hole in the camera shoe, then it will still block you from removing the flash from the camera. It's never a problem until this happens, so that's why it's a good idea to check for the proper operation of the locking pin every once in a while, before you put the flash on the camera.

Sirius Glass · Jul 28, 2022

The only time I had a problem with the locking pin was when I forgot to unlock it. Just like trying to remove a tire without taking off the lug nuts.

Huss · Jul 28, 2022

Sharktooth said:
In relation to my previous post, I decided to cut off a bit of the ends of the locking pin on my SB800 and SB400. On these two flash units, the tip of the locking pin remained exposed in the unlocked position. This could make it difficult to remove the flash from the camera.

I used a dremel tool (rotary tool) with a cutoff wheel on the end. I used the cutoff wheel so I could side load the pin for the cut. If you end load the pin it will just push in, so you may not be able to do it by trying to sand the tip.

Here are some pictures to see the outcome. I'm happy with the results, since now both flashes go on and off easily when unlocked, and have solid retention when locked.

View attachment 311275 View attachment 311276 View attachment 311277 View attachment 311278 View attachment 311279

My no good, very bad, stupidly designed Nikon speedlight

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