My new Voigtlander Bessa 1

studiocarter · Dec 29, 2014

I had to go Downtown, Pittsburgh, today and I tried to find an old camera shop that I was once in. It was still in business and it is a camera repair shop. It is on Market Street. I asked if they had any 6x9 cameras. He did. It is a Voigtlander Bessa 1 with a Compur Rapid shutter that is f 3.5 and up to 1/400 sec with many other speeds. Woo Hoo! Serviced and warranted. I went for a walk but came back and got it for a little less than the $300 he asked; it totaled less than that with tax included. That's my holiday splurge.
There are two red film number windows on the back and a screw that moves a thing to cover one of them. What is that about? I think I can only use one of them but two can be open at the same time.
I looked up instruction books for similar cameras and they say to cock the shutter before changing settings. Is that correct?
There isn't a timer included but one second works fine.
The tripod fittings include two 1/4 by 20 inserts. My Nettar does not have the inserts and cannot be used with a normal tripod but now will be.
Instructions also say that the highest speed 1/400 uses a strong spring and indeed there is a lot of resistance to it. I have not tried it as yet and am hesitant to do so. The man did say that everything was functioning as it should. I'll wait and shoot a roll first at speeds up to 1/200.
Has anyone used the strong spring shutter setting?

shutterfinger · Dec 29, 2014

http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bessa_i.pdf

summicron1 · Dec 29, 2014

the red windows on back are frame counting, obviously. YOu use the one nearest the end of the camera with thekey that winds the film for shooting. If you have/are using the insert for the camera that converts it to 4 by 6 (half frame, 16 shots per roll instead of 8) then you use the lower window first.

Some of us just cover up the unused window with back tape to avoid confusion.

studiocarter · Dec 29, 2014

oops. I didn't say that the camera is a 6.9 format. It is a vertical folding one. It does not have a range finder but has a optical finder that flips up a couple pieces. There is a lens in it. I got a manual that shows the lens but does not describe it inside. It was also from camera manuals.
http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bessa_optical_finder.pdf

summicron1 · Dec 29, 2014

as to your concerns about the highest shutter speed -- go ahead and use it. The camera won't break. It is a second spring that is used to get that final 1/400 of a second speed. It is a bit tougher to cock, but not much.

Just do not change the shutter speed from 1/400 to a slower one with the shutter cocked. That's a no-no.

not sure what you mean by vertical folding camera not being 6x9.

gone · Dec 29, 2014

Go ahead and use the 1/400 shutter speed setting. Just carefully, but firmly, set it to that speed. No problem at all. Absolutely don't change the shutter speeds after you've cocked the shutter. If you find that the speed is set incorrectly after you have cocked the shutter, simply hold your hand tightly over the lens and fire it to reset it again. That way you won't lose a frame on the roll. The two red windows are for shooting 6x4.5 photos if your camera has a 6x4.5 film mask. You could use the window on the left for one shot, then advance the film and get the same number in the right window for your next shot. I gather your camera did not come w/ the mask, so you will have to be content w/ using one window for 8 shots in the 6x9 format. Masks can be purchased by themselves, but you have to be sure that they are exactly for your model camera or they won't work. You can also make them yourself out of stiff black paper, but they may not hold the film that flat. Often you can purchase a whole camera w/ a mask for the price of a 6x4.5 mask.

Speaking of film flatness, one trick to getting sharp shots w/ old folders is to advance the film to the next number after every shot, but don't quite get it centered in the red window. Then, when you are ready to take your next shot, open the camera (if it were closed) and slowly nudge the film advance to get the number centered. This will hold the film taut and give you sharper images. Opening the bellows will pull the film away from the pressure plate by suction action, so you want to let things settle for a spell if you already have the film number centered when you open the camera.

Congratulations on your new camera. The price is high, but if it comes w/ a guarantee it may be worth it. I'm not sure what lenses came on that camera, but since you have the best shutter available at the time, it should be a good one. Lessor lenses had the 1/250 shutters. All of the Voigtlander lenses are very good though. I'm sure the photo quality will be excellent as long as you get the guesstimate focus correct.

DcAnalogue · Dec 29, 2014

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_bessa/voigtlander_bessa.htm

studiocarter · Dec 29, 2014

summicron1 said:
not sure what you mean by vertical folding camera not being 6x9.

It IS a 6x9 is what I tried to say.

bernard_L · Dec 30, 2014

Just do not change the shutter speed from 1/400 to a slower one with the shutter cocked. That's a no-no.

IMO it's the opposite. You must select 1/400 before you cock the shutter.

Meyer Trioplan · Dec 30, 2014

Congrats on your new acquisition. From all I've heard, Voigtlander makes some great 6x9 folders, and I hope you have a good time with it as well as good results. Now that you know about the possibility of using a mask for 6x4.5 shots, are you going to try to find or make one?

studiocarter · Dec 30, 2014

You know, I,lol ask the ca mere repair guy if he would make me one.
I have some Kodak 6/9 cameras with broken focus he may fix.
I cranked the speed dial up to 400 then cocked the shutter and all is good. It fires and so do slower speeds afterwards.
Instructions in the manuals are confusing about that. I will not change speed from 400 after cocking.

studiocarter · Dec 30, 2014

This was shot at 1/400 f 22 focus set at infinity. Film is HP5. Development was D76 1:1 11 min. at 68 degrees F with 5 sec agitation every 30 seconds.
Pretty sharp all the way across. It was hand held. The lens was in a shaded spot. The waist level finder shoots high so I'll have to aim lower next time. The sunlight was 320. The corners are not dark like the Nettar photos.
This camera is really nice. I'm real happy with it.

johnnyh · Dec 31, 2014

A little more about the 6x4.5 mask (apologies if I missed coverage of this aspect above). The original Voigtlander mask contains a tab which, when inserted, automatically causes the uncovering of the second red window; in 6x9 mode it should be covered by a spring-loaded blade behind the film pressure plate. These masks are often missing and are quite sought-after.
I hope you enjoy the camera, any the lenses fitted should give good results.

baachitraka · Dec 31, 2014

300 seems bit high for VB I. May I know what lens you got?

elekm · Dec 31, 2014

Voigtlander had a small mask that fit into the film chamber. It converted the camera to 6x4.5. Obviously, you can't make the change mid-roll.

What this does is give you a 6x4.5 camera with a short telephoto lens. Most 6x4.5 cameras from that era had a "normal" lens of 70mm to 80mm.

Compur is the name of the shutter, not the lens. You should have a Skopar (Tessar type) lens on the camera.

You should test the camera with film. The Voigtlander has a reputation for having a lens yoke that can be prone to damage. In fairness, any camera that is dropped might not ever give you a sharp photo again.

Edit: I see that you tested the camera ...

elekm · Dec 31, 2014

That's on the high end, regarding the price, but not totally unreasonable.

I don't mind paying a bit more when I can see, touch and inspect the camera.

Your other choice is to bid on the "mint" camera offered for sale on eBay, forums and other online venues.

studiocarter · Dec 31, 2014

It was totally cool to be able to walk into a working camera shop and out with a camera I wanted. That and no shipping charges. Such shops are very rare anymore.
The film for the above photo was HP5+ if that makes any difference and it was shot and developed as 400 asa.
The lens is Voitglander Braunschweig Voigtar 1:3.5 F=10.5 cm
After developing the film and before cutting it I could see the difference between the shots. A few were lighter maybe only two. The others were very dark. Well, darker than other films I'd processed. They scanned great, the dark ones coming out lighter. I think the 1/400 f22 shot was the best exposed negative. 1/200 f 22 was just about the same.
That little window cover thing works well with the set screw and should work with a proper adapter for 6x4.5.
However, I got the camera for the large negatives.

shutterfinger · Dec 31, 2014

According to A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum the Voigtar is a budget Triplet that has been in use since the mid 1920's. It has undergone design improvements over the years from unsymmetrical to near symmetrical.

A shutter that has been recently serviced should give near identical exposures of the same scene shot at equivalent exposure for each shutter speed the shutter has.

Changing shutter speeds: shutters usually use an expansion spring for the main cocking, early shutters used a hairpin type spring, and a torsion spring for the booster for speeds above 1/100. The torsion spring may be compressed by a cam turned by the speed setting ring, easier to set, or by direct contact with the speed setting ring. The speed setting ring also operates levers in the delay mechanism. Setting the shutter (cocking it) applies high tension to the mechanism. Changing shutter speeds with the shutter set usually increases the difficulty of turning the speed setting ring increasing wear on the ring and delay levers. There are a few shutters that this does nor occur on. With the shutter set the increase in tension may prevent the shutter from being set to a speed higher than 1/200. Some delay mechanisms will not set to the proper positions with more than static (shutter released state) pressure applied.

elekm · Dec 31, 2014

Oh that's interesting that you have a Voigtar on that camera. Because that's a lower-level lens. Generally, the Compur shutter was paired with the Skopar or Heliar.

But not always, come to think of it. I have an early all-black Bessa (rangefinder model) with a Helomar (also a triplet), but it's set in a Compur shutter. However, to be fair, I think that all of these models had a Compur.

Regular Rod · Dec 31, 2014

summicron1 said:
the red windows on back are frame counting, obviously. YOu use the one nearest the end of the camera with thekey that winds the film for shooting. If you have/are using the insert for the camera that converts it to 4 by 6 (half frame, 16 shots per roll instead of 8) then you use the lower window first.

Some of us just cover up the unused window with back tape to avoid confusion.

If you have the insert mask and do use it for 4.5x6 then you should also turn the small cross hatched button to alter the viewfinder to 4.5x6 as well. The red window nearest the middle is the one you use for the 16 frame counts.

I modified mine with Velcro patches:

although I stick with the 6x9 for this camera.

RR

Regular Rod · Dec 31, 2014

elekm said:
Voigtlander had a small mask that fit into the film chamber. It converted the camera to 6x4.5. Obviously, you can't make the change mid-roll.

What this does is give you a 6x4.5 camera with a short telephoto lens. Most 6x4.5 cameras from that era had a "normal" lens of 70mm to 80mm.

Compur is the name of the shutter, not the lens. You should have a Skopar (Tessar type) lens on the camera.

You should test the camera with film. The Voigtlander has a reputation for having a lens yoke that can be prone to damage. In fairness, any camera that is dropped might not ever give you a sharp photo again.

Edit: I see that you tested the camera ...

That lens yoke is something to check. When the bellows unfolds sometimes it is necessary to just push the yoke so that the whole front upright is parallel to the film plane. Once pushed it stays there rock solid and the camera functions perfectly.

RR

Pioneer · Dec 31, 2014

Enjoy it. All the Voigtlander folding cameras were pretty good performers. Your Color Skopar is a tessar style lens and will produce very nice photographs. It is most likely uncoated, unless it was replaced at some point in its life, but will still take very good photos.

With your shutter I think you are most safe to set the shutter speed you will want, regardless of what speed that is, then cock the shutter. This is probably most important at the fastest shutter speed, but it is better to develop the habit all the time. The reality is that I don't often use 1/400 with mine. I haven't tested it but it is not unusual that the fastest shutter speed is way off the mark at this point in its life. To avoid any potential exposure surprises I just avoid it.

baachitraka · Jan 1, 2015

That lens will perform good if you stop down some where in between f/8-f/11. But they are amazing for portraits.

studiocarter · Jan 1, 2015

Well I look forward to doing that. With the 400+ film I bought for gray days the sun has been shining brightly ever since and I didn't want to wait so it was tested at the absolute extreme of f22 & 1/400. The same thing happened with it's mate, the Nettar, using plusX at that cameras extreme or just under it 1/125 & f16. Self developing was successful and fun to do.
New film Asa 50 was ordered from Adorama. That will put both cameras into the zone of middle apertures.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jan 1, 2015

Unless your taking action shots use a tripod and use any film. With that lens you will want to be stopping down to f/8 at least.

My new Voigtlander Bessa 1

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