My negatives are almost black

Johanna Nager · Dec 25, 2018

Happy Holidays

I just developed my first roll of film using the stand development technique with a C41 digibase kit. The first roll I developed was an old one which I did not know how it has been stored, (possibly 10 years old, left); I was also not able to overexpose it. In comparison to a commercially developed roll (10 yrs old but stored in freezer), my own development turned out very dark. When I pulled it out of the reel, the back was milky light brown, which then dried to semi-transparent. I am wondering what I might have done wrong, or if it is just due to underexposure of the film.

(Photos below for comparison)

koraks · Dec 25, 2018

C41 is 3m15s at 38C or 100F with continuous agitation. Stand development may lead to undesirable and unpredictable results. Try textbook development and take it from there.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 25, 2018

The film rebate is dark, so it didn’t happen in the camera. Unless the film was exposed to light at some point before processing, it’s a processing issue. Use the normal process for C-41 before experimenting with stand development.

mnemosyne · Dec 25, 2018

Film was totally fogged either through longterm storage in adverse conditions or by someone exposing it to light. While I have seen some old C41 film fogged through storage that turned out very dark, an evenly and densly black film would suggest fogging by complete exposure to ambient light.

You did take the film out of the canister and load it onto the reel and into a developing tank in total darkness, did you?

AgX · Dec 25, 2018

Welcome !

-) Yes, your film still shows faint images, thus your film is not completely black as considered above, thus very unlikely fully exposed to light. Likely you applied extreme overdevelopment, by this blackening even unexposed parts

-) a milky effect is typical of such colour film

-) as said above start your film processing career with the classic approach
(classic b&w film with a middle-of-the-road b&w developer)
Actually I am even wondering what you tried to achieve with your experimental approach.

Rick A · Dec 25, 2018

Koraks is correct. You cannot treat C-41 process like traditional black and white film. You must follow the time/temp chart for the process. You over developed your film.

removedacct1 · Dec 25, 2018

Rick A said:
Koraks is correct. You cannot treat C-41 process like traditional black and white film. You must follow the time/temp chart for the process. You over developed your film.

Stand development is not for use with C-41 films. Stick with tried and true process.

pentaxuser · Dec 25, 2018

Johanna Nager said:
I just developed my first roll of film using the stand development technique with a C41 digibase kit.

I think this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone using a stand development technique with colour negative film. Can you tell us more of what you mean by stand development in terms of time and agitation. With B&W film, stand development usually means a developer that can be seriously diluted such as Rodinal and a time of at least an hour during which there is no or almost no agitation

Can you also say why you chose this method and if you found information that indicated that stand development for C41 was successful

Thanks

pentaxuser

MattKing · Dec 26, 2018

Thank you for showing us what happens when you try to use stand development with C41 film and chemicals.
Most/none of us would have expected that it would have worked. You have confirmed our expectation, but I for one didn't know how it would appear if we tried.
I'm sorry your negatives were ruined.

Johanna Nager · Dec 26, 2018

Hey everyone. Thanks for you helpful replies. I followed this youtube tutorial, , who even ued the same kit, so I assumed it would work. To be honest I hadnt looked much into the regular development process since I was quickly introduced to stand development. However when I read the introductions it seems way quicker and better, so I will try that from now on.

Thank you once again!

RalphLambrecht · Dec 26, 2018

Johanna Nager said:
Happy Holidays

I just developed my first roll of film using the stand development technique with a C41 digibase kit. The first roll I developed was an old one which I did not know how it has been stored, (possibly 10 years old, left); I was also not able to overexpose it. In comparison to a commercially developed roll (10 yrs old but stored in freezer), my own development turned out very dark. When I pulled it out of the reel, the back was milky light brown, which then dried to semi-transparent. I am wondering what I might have done wrong, or if it is just due to underexposure of the film.

(Photos below for comparison)

as others said,the film is totally fogged and over exposed. I also suggest to take a fresh film and try textbook development. You can do much better than this,I'm sure.

koraks · Dec 26, 2018

Stand development, development at lower temperatures than specified etc are all fine if you don't care about correct contrast, color balance etc and don't mind spending time in digital post processing correcting everything. I thought all these deviations from spec yielded fine/usable results when I had a hybrid work flow. Once I started printing RA4 I learned how badly C41 comes out if you deviate too far from the specified process parameters. Sure, you can push or pull color film to some extent and end up with proper gamma and quite correctable colors, but that's about it. To get good results, remain as close to the official process parameters as possible. I'll go so far as to state that advocates of arcane methods such as stand developing C41 film have most likely never critically examined their negatives for correct gamma and color balance and have just left it at "it scans fine so the negatives are good."

Rick A · Dec 26, 2018

I saw it on the internet, it must be true.

Chan Tran · Dec 26, 2018

I can't understand why people use expired film. I would not use expired film even if I get them for free.
If someone said they use expired film to look for some unexpected effects then the OP certainly got it.

pentaxuser · Dec 26, 2018

I watched the video and assuming it was genuine and I think it was, the key question we all need to ask as "seekers of wisdom and truth" is why was he able to produce what looked like fine C41 negs with this process? It can be done, of that there is no question unless as I said the whole thing was faked and I don't believe it was. Has the video maker only used this stand process for C41 once and got incredibly lucky or has he done it many times and it has always worked?

Compared to B&W part of the video, it makes 2 points. 1. The chemicals have to be at 25C and 2. There is a pre-soak at 25 C

Without wishing to get into the colour balance/crossover issues again at less than 38C the only difference between the video and the OP was that the latter was using 10 yr old film. In fact we don't know the age of the video's film but let's assume it was in-date.

I am not advocating this stand process by any means but setting aside any innate prejudices we have about doing any photographic process outside the accepted rules, what can we conclude about the success of C41 stand development from this video?

It may have been rpavich's thread on developing C41 at less than 38C that prompted my memory but it really does depend on the statistically significant rate of failure as to whether this process is worth the risk, doesn't it?

pentaxuser

removed account4 · Dec 26, 2018

hi johanna

sorry to see your dark negatives
i really can't add to what anyone has said here
but good to see you here on photrio !
good luck sorting out your process ..
sometimes there are a few moving parts but once you
get the hang of it, the photos always come out as expected.
if you want to continue with the stand development, you might
bracket your film exposures in-camera to have a variety of different ones
so you can decide which work best with your development process.. sometimes
off the beaten path development methods require a little bit of "fine tuning" to get
negatives that are more easily used ...
john

Wallendo · Dec 26, 2018

I suspect the video maker got results with stand development by using lower temperature. It would seem that results would vary tremendously among different users depending on their ambient room temperature. Warmer rooms would lead to overdevelopment and cooler rooms to underdevelopment.

For me, it would be easier to use a water bath at recommended temperature than regulate my entire home temperature to 25C (77F). I tend to keep my home at 70F during the winter.

MattKing · Dec 26, 2018

Wallendo said:
I suspect the video maker got results with stand development by using lower temperature.

+1 - blind luck (at least with the colour film).
There were a bunch of other problems with the video.
Using the twisting method for agitation is problematic - Paterson themselves recommend using inversion except for, at most, the first 30 seconds.
Using soda or water bottles for chemicals unless they have been clearly and obviously marked.
Drinking Proseco in the midst of the process.
Watching an episode of Seinfeld in the midst of the process.
As the OP has now posted, the "normal" method for processing isn't all that difficult.

mshchem · Dec 26, 2018

1kgcoffee · Dec 26, 2018

Chan Tran said:
I can't understand why people use expired film. I would not use expired film even if I get them for free.
If someone said they use expired film to look for some unexpected effects then the OP certainly got it.

What if it were a film that got discontinued and was properly stored.
Colour film can survive for a long time with minimal colour shifts. You may not have a choice in the long term.

koraks · Dec 26, 2018

I regularly shoot Superia 200 expired in 2004 or so. Yields excellent results. However, it was cold stored as soon as it left the production line and remains in the fridge today. My experience with film this age that was not cold stored is variable to say the least. Storage conditions are really essential for color film beyond a year or 3.

Chan Tran · Dec 26, 2018

1kgcoffee said:
What if it were a film that got discontinued and was properly stored.
Colour film can survive for a long time with minimal colour shifts. You may not have a choice in the long term.

But right now there are still film. For color negative films I see no need beyond Ektar and Portra 160.

My negatives are almost black

Johanna Nager

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