Flauvius said:This is addressed to the photo community in general, and to Photo Mechanic in general.
Namely, if SW FB "AZO" printing papers are relative easy to produce, why is it that no major photographic supplier - Illford, J&C, Kentmere, or Calumet - has seized the opportunity to produce a silver chloride "AZO" type of printing paper? Indeed, given that contact printing papers can be used by all manner of photogrpahers and related artists; what financial or govermental "interests" would prefer - and are able to cause - contact printing to become extinct?
Regards,
Flauvius
skillian said:Kodak did not make one small production run of Azo per year. They made master rolls once every 4-5 years and did not produce more until they sold through.
ajuk said:I think Fuji made a positive proccessing paper (like Ilfochrome) until last year and they pulled that, but nobody is expecting them to pull out of slide film.
ajuk said:They say they forcast 20% decline this year, so I wonder if the loss of Agfa and Kodak paper has revesed this?
But TBH I hope Kodak don't pull out of B&W film. I think Fuji made a positive proccessing paper (like Ilfochrome) until last year and they pulled that, but nobody is expecting them to pull out of slide film.
Photo Engineer said:Agfa sank, Kodak left paper, and well, there you have it.
ok but that doesn't answer my question.Photo Engineer said:Ajuk, the overall decline in B&W film and paper has been nothing short of catastrophic and much larger than anyone at any of the companies had predicted. The people here on APUG must come to a realization of this fact.
This is what led to Agfa's problems and Kodak's exit from the market.
PE
gbroadbridge said:The silly thing is, a well planned advertising campaign could well make a difference.
There is obviously a market for B&W as is shown by B&W C41 pocessed film. Someone smart just needs to push the retro look and feel of true silver based B&W and the current generation would leap in to be using the latest retro thing.
Visualize this:.........
clay said:I had a discussion last week with someone living in Rochester who is in a position to be extremely well informed about the state of things. He is convinced it is a matter of a few years if not months before silver paper is going to be gone. His reasoning is that apparently every paper manufacturer buys their baryta paper base from the same factory in Germany (schoeller), and that they are down to one line staying busy only a few days per month. If Schoeller decides to close this production line, bam!, no more paper, because no one will have the stock on which to coat their gelatin emulsions. Now, someone could always just coat on something like a COT320 or similar stock, but it will not have the same hard baryta 'look' that we have become accustomed to associating with silver gelatin printing. I hope he is wrong, but I have this uncomfortable feeling that the days of factory made silver gelatin paper are numbered. Thank goodness Hollywood still uses film as their distribution medium. That should keep film technology alive a little longer - I hope.
Photo Engineer said:Some quick responses.
1. Ajuk, the overall decline in B&W was projected to be larger than the 20% or so quoted above, and turned out to be far larger than that pessimistic figure by a big margin. I hope this helps a bit.
david b said:Support Ilford.
Photo Engineer said:IMHO, the hand coated micro photo paper would be too costly, but the DIY kit would be a reasonable expense to the dedicated hobbyist. If someone could get a 10" or 11" machine, then supporting it would be feasible and the cost would drop dramatically and your idea would be practical. I believe that the product would vary more than from major manufacturers and you would see 'vintage' coatings and 'duds' from time to time if this were to take place. In this latter scenario, startup costs would be the killer. You might get the machine for a song, but learning how to make and coat adequate products would require a - Photographic Engineer. There are not many of us left.
PE
gnashings said:There will always be a market for film photography, B&W in particular. Yes, I said market. As in professional work. Right now its a wave of digital induced euphoria, and I have no doubt of its (digital's) continuing dominance -but I also think that with clever marketing or without, there will be a snobby elite that will demand "silverprints" just as they demand handbuilt cars and wine that is hand made from beginning to end. And I think the post with the TV add in it is exactly what the film photo industry needs - a spin. Good advertisement can be the difference between a prdouct that also sells and one which becomes a phenomenon. Remember - most of the marketing successes over the years were due to a successful presentation of a concept, and a sale of that concept as a whole - not a product, but the whole idea. And I think any marketing student who does not see this simple truth will be fetching a lot of coffee in what fails to be their career.
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