My Instant Film Concept

Stephen Frizza · Nov 27, 2010

I have recently been playing around with exposing black and white film through RGB and RYGCB screens with some reasonable success. I have then been reversal processing it and re registering it with the screen it was shot through to produce a colour transparency. A sample of the result is attached.

Well I have been thinking if an integral emulsion (like is found in polaroid and Fuji instant or the impossible products) were to re engineer and the product made to have an RGB or RYGCB screen rather than clear plastic over the image monochrome panchromatic emulsion below it, could it be a new approach to making a colour instant product?

I understand light transmission is Key to the above mentioned principle so I am thinking the emulsion would need to be either on an opaque backing like duratrans to allow light to pass though or otherwise the base would need to be a highly reflective base. Either way the resulting product would be
like an autochrome / dufay / polaroid but as a print material not a film.

Surely this would be a simple method to make a colour instant print product?
(I acknowledge there really isn't anything simple about instant film products)

Its just my mind wandering and thinking about my latest tests .....any thoughts?

~Steve

AgX · Nov 27, 2010

Polaroid had already marketed such.
(Though in a peel apart, transparency version.)

EDIT: I realize you already hinted at that.

They worked on another grid systems for prints too. It's hard to come up with something really new.

AgX · Nov 27, 2010

Your key problem would not be the base but getting rid of the negative. Look how the industry did it.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 27, 2010

If you can make a case to fill with monobath for 4x5 film , you can even produce a instant bw film product with a color screen.
Do you know what monobath is ? There is a new pn 55 blog at google and all chemistry recipes are ready also.
Or you can make a 4x5 film cassette which can be converted to monobath , some one syringe inside wait few minutes and get the film and paper towel the cassette for to use again.
There can be many same screens at hand. One at the cassette for taking , one at the home for viewing.
I think when there is digital cameras at the hand , you must reach to a customer who uses 8x10 or bigger. This can be usable but final quality is so important.
May be you think for monobath C41 or E6 if possible.
You can use Fuji but not large gap between color , bw price.
You can use also liquid emulsion products to create your film.

Umut

georgegrosu · Nov 27, 2010

You make photo on a b&w film using RGB filters. The film you've developed reversible?
I saw something on the internet can give you same ideas.
un test en trichromie of Henri Gaud - http://www.galerie-photo.com/test-trichromie.html
George

Stephen Frizza · Nov 27, 2010

No polaroid made Polaroid 691 a colour overhead transparency product a hulk version of Polachrome and Polapan. What Im suggesting is not a transparency but a print product rather than a projection one.

David Grenet · Nov 28, 2010

I think this sounds like a really interesting idea - it shouldn't be too difficult to do a proof of concept experiment either...

AgX · Nov 29, 2010

David,
A proof of concept for an integral colour-instant-film not to be too difficult??

David Grenet · Nov 29, 2010

What I meant was that a proof of concept using a colour screen with a reflective material would not be too difficult. It would just require finding some panchromatic paper, either old Panalure or some of the new stuff used for digital printing and registering it with a screen in much the same way Steve has already done with transparency material.

holmburgers · Nov 29, 2010

I think the issue is getting a subtractive screen that works for reflection viewing. If the screen uses CMY, then the individual cells aren't good separation filters for the taking exposure, and thus poor color reproduction. And of course, if the screen is RGB, then it's reflective viewing capabilities are piss poor.

Now, if you could get a screen that changed from RGB to CMY... you might have something.

But reading this, I'm still confused...

Stephen Frizza said:
I understand light transmission is Key to the above mentioned principle so I am thinking the emulsion would need to be either on an opaque backing like duratrans to allow light to pass though or otherwise the base would need to be a highly reflective base. Either way the resulting product would be
like an autochrome / dufay / polaroid but as a print material not a film.

Opaque means not see thru. So do you want a print, or a slide?

An instant autochrome transparency, which I think would be awesome!, should be easier than a print system. "Just" devise a monobath reversal developer.

For a print screen plate, it seems like it would be impossible to produce a white.

All in all, a fascinating idea....

Photo Engineer · Nov 29, 2010

AFAIK, no screen based print material was ever reduced to practice. Due to the nature of additive systems, it may actually be impossible. In fact, that was a major drawback to Dufay and Autochrome. They could only be viewed by projection or transmitted light. No prints were ever possible until an integral tripack subtractive process was developed.

PE

AgX · Nov 29, 2010

No PE,

there were several additive filter grid print materials.

And there were specific solutions to the transmission problem already 100 years ago. But the double pass through an RGB screen was and stayed a challenge at least.
That PE does not know about them tells a lot about those materials and their fate.

As I already hinted at, a lot of people already worked on a lot of processes and it's really hard to come with something new. It would be easier to come up with a solution to an old problem...

Photo Engineer · Nov 29, 2010

It probably would be of general interest to have references to these print materials AgX.

Thanks.

PE

holmburgers · Nov 29, 2010

Finlay had a separate screen to use for viewing that was lighter than the taking screen, if I recall correctly.

But think about it, how would you produce white with a CMY screen?? It's impossible

Photo Engineer · Nov 29, 2010

There is no indication, AFAIK, that Finlay produced color prints directly. The slides were printed from plates on a press or were printed via Carbro or Dye Transfer type processes. http://www.oldandsold.com/articles21/color-photography-12.shtml

PE

AgX · Nov 29, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
It probably would be of general interest to have references to these print materials AgX.

Thanks.

PE

Paget first offered a plate print system with a lose filter grid and later a paper with a fixed filter, both for remission-viewing.
Piller offered two systems with a fixed filter grid.

Photo Engineer · Nov 29, 2010

Paget references seem to only describe the duplication of images, the use of 2 screens (taking and viewing) and the poor quality of the colors. No references to the reflection print material although in one source, it is implied but not clearly described. I find no references to Piller. These must be rare indeed.

PE

My Instant Film Concept

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency