Just to be clear for the record, the kid is probably a good kid. In fact I have a theory that most of these young people who go around in these weird get-ups, would rather in their hearts go around looking like the kids on the Donna Reed Show or something, if only they didn't feel like they would appear strange. These kids today are under such pressure by the diversity mongers, they feel like they have to look odd just to fit in.
The last thing I'd ever even think of is wanting insult any of you folks' kids or anything else that is yours. So, to state for the record, if there was any insult coming from me, unintended or not, I apologize. Wasn't mean that way.
Just to be clear for the record, the kid is probably a good kid. In fact I have a theory that most of these young people who go around in these weird get-ups, would rather in their hearts go around looking like the kids on the Donna Reed Show or something, if only they didn't feel like they would appear strange. These kids today are under such pressure by the diversity mongers, they feel like they have to look odd just to fit in.
The last thing I'd ever even think of is wanting insult any of you folks' kids or anything else that is yours. So, to state for the record, if there was any insult coming from me, unintended or not, I apologize. Wasn't mean that way.
I try to not mention my age (or other identifying features) online (mostly for fun), but lets just say I'm over 25. Not only do I not regret my "modifications" or "fashion statements," I still pretty much look the same as I did at his age. No, I did not, and still do not, look superficially "conventional." A big part of this is my parents and grandparents were very accepting of these sorts of things. They were more concerned with character, and they raised me well in this respect. That is not to say they didn't rag on me about it (in a joking manner, not mean or unaccepting). Like when my father and one of my friends in my undergrad walked behind me in a store, enjoying the reactions people had (I had some unnatural colored streaks in my hair at the time, among other things).I don't think it needs to be "straightened out". Leave the kid alone and let him be what he wants to be. If he doesn't like it five years from now (highly likely) he'll change. And like most people who change between 15 and 21, by the time he's 25 he'll probably regret some of the choices he made vis-a-vis body modification, or even just fashion statements that are now commemorated forevermore in dad's photos. But the surest route to destroying a relationship between a parent and child is to try and force "your" way on them (and that goes both directions, not just parents trying to make kids be what they want them to be instead of what the kid wants to be). I'm not saying never say NO to the kid, but don't drop ultimatums on them. Do that when it doesn't count, and when it does, they'll choose the option you don't want them to.
I mostly agree with you on this - more-or-less a +1. However, my thoughts on this subject come from my memories of being in these positions, and how my parents and grandparents handled it. I am childless, though I was once a child. (I also once worked in a school for teens with behavioral problems.)Finally someone who gets it. It amazes me that the childless experts come out of the woodwork to give strong advice about things that they do not know about and truly haven't a clue about so many things in the world.
Why would you think they would truly rather look like that? Seriously, why? That argument does not even agree with itself - if someone thought looking like the Donna Reed Show would make them look odd, then by this reasoning looking like anything would also make them look odd, as there are so many different ways to look. Regardless of one's reasons for looking any particular way, regardless of whether those reasons are deemed "good" or "bad," fitting into one group means you may look odd to the other groups. Some times a "get-up" is because they like the aesthetics (as as some prefer traditional grain versus t-grain films). Other times it is part of being in an "affinity group" or sub-culture. There are many other reasons, maybe even a reason similar to your theory - though the brush is not nearly that broad.Just to be clear for the record, the kid is probably a good kid. In fact I have a theory that most of these young people who go around in these weird get-ups, would rather in their hearts go around looking like the kids on the Donna Reed Show or something, if only they didn't feel like they would appear strange. These kids today are under such pressure by the diversity mongers, they feel like they have to look odd just to fit in.
The last thing I'd ever even think of is wanting insult any of you folks' kids or anything else that is yours. So, to state for the record, if there was any insult coming from me, unintended or not, I apologize. Wasn't mean that way.
+1Kids today aren't so different from kids in the past--they're just young in a different time.
norm123 - Introduce the lad to Kai, last of the Brunnen-G.... But tell him to stay away from Zev Bellringer
Feedback is welcome
PerWise people are able to accept reality as it is, with equanimity
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Anyway, OP the image is really great, I bet he loves it and it will get him lots of goth girlfriends (and I was once goth, and the girls are... Fun... So watch out!). But yea I never confused Nirvana with being goth...
First of all, nice picture.
Second, he looks normal to me, and I was never in his particular sub-culture. I don't see what all the fuss is about your son's appearance. I've always looked like I'm into metol, err... metal. In high school I had a friend that was punk. This thread reminds me a lot of people's comments about us in general, and how they'd question how we could even be friends. We constantly had to explain (back in high school) that friendship has nothing to do with how we looked or the interests we did not share.
During grad school I took a close friend from Japan to the Milan Melon Festival in Ohio. We saw some Goths there, and she'd not seen one in "real life." She was a bit taken aback, so I asked if she wanted to talk to them. Though I often start up conversations with strangers, she was surprised I suggested we do so with Goths. I had to tell her they were normal people, just like us - they merely looked different. She declined, but she did get the message.
I try to not mention my age (or other identifying features) online (mostly for fun), but lets just say I'm over 25. Not only do I not regret my "modifications" or "fashion statements," I still pretty much look the same as I did at his age. No, I did not, and still do not, look superficially "conventional." A big part of this is my parents and grandparents were very accepting of these sorts of things. They were more concerned with character, and they raised me well in this respect. That is not to say they didn't rag on me about it (in a joking manner, not mean or unaccepting). Like when my father and one of my friends in my undergrad walked behind me in a store, enjoying the reactions people had (I had some unnatural colored streaks in my hair at the time, among other things).
Of course, I did have to make concessions when entering the workforce. However, looking at me now, and pictures of me then, I mostly look the same; and am into the same various subcultures. You wouldn't really say much has changed, and would probably agree I still don't "fit-in." I don't feel that way, but I'm obviously biased. As a matter of fact, my best friend looked at old photos, and she noticed how my brother looked different through the years, always being trendy, while I have been relatively static in appearance (though convention now mandates I not be quite so extreme).
I mostly agree with you on this - more-or-less a +1. However, my thoughts on this subject come from my memories of being in these positions, and how my parents and grandparents handled it. I am childless, though I was once a child. (I also once worked in a school for teens with behavioral problems.)
Why would you think they would truly rather look like that? Seriously, why? That argument does not even agree with itself - if someone thought looking like the Donna Reed Show would make them look odd, then by this reasoning looking like anything would also make them look odd, as there are so many different ways to look. Regardless of one's reasons for looking any particular way, regardless of whether those reasons are deemed "good" or "bad," fitting into one group means you may look odd to the other groups. Some times a "get-up" is because they like the aesthetics (as as some prefer traditional grain versus t-grain films). Other times it is part of being in an "affinity group" or sub-culture. There are many other reasons, maybe even a reason similar to your theory - though the brush is not nearly that broad.
I don't know what you look like, but would never assume that deep in your heart you would want to look like me. Nor would I rationalize in my own mind that you looked different from me only for a reason that I would consider "acceptable" in my own mind. As a matter of fact, as long as you don't look like the the epitome of something (in other words, an exact and pretentious embodiment of some stereotype), I'd likely not notice how you looked at all; instead noticing how you thought and who you were as a person. Perhaps this is because of how I was raised, or perhaps it is because I've been on the receiving end of this sort of thinking my entire life.
I was what many considered in a "weird get-up" in my teens and twenties. Many of my friends were too, though different "get-ups." Most of us still are. We never had any desire to be other than what we were, or look other than how we looked. We never felt like we "had" to fit into any group. When we met someone who was into our sub-groups/subcultures, and they asked how they had to act/behave/look/etc. to fit in, we told them there was no true prerequisite other than treating people well and not being an ass.
+1
By saying I'm over 25 I've not given an upper limit, so I may in fact be older than youI don't care how old you are, I just want to know if you're a boy or girl... Haha
You're younger than me, but not by much
Good insights, I agree.
By saying I'm over 25 I've not given an upper limit, so I may in fact be older than you(though I don't know how old you are). I am as old as my gums, but a little older than my teeth.
Thank you.By that, I think we can infer that your teeth are actually your teeth, and not something you put in a container at night.
And as to your previous, long post, I think it is excellent.
Thank you.
I do put something dental in a container... in the day, though. I have a night-guard because I tend to grind my teeth in my sleep. I inherited that from my mother (the grinding, not the guard).
My teeth are mine, even a few implants (I paid for them).
Tom1956 made a comment about sending kids like him to a farm to plow fields and chop wood for a couple years to straighten them out. I don't know the kid at all - his dad certainly didn't have any complaints, and felt proud enough of him to take his portrait and post it online - sounds like the kid doesn't need any straightening out. He just has a different fashion sense.
I don't think it needs to be "straightened out". Leave the kid alone and let him be what he wants to be. If he doesn't like it five years from now (highly likely) he'll change. And like most people who change between 15 and 21, by the time he's 25 he'll probably regret some of the choices he made vis-a-vis body modification, or even just fashion statements that are now commemorated forevermore in dad's photos. But the surest route to destroying a relationship between a parent and child is to try and force "your" way on them (and that goes both directions, not just parents trying to make kids be what they want them to be instead of what the kid wants to be). I'm not saying never say NO to the kid, but don't drop ultimatums on them. Do that when it doesn't count, and when it does, they'll choose the option you don't want them to.
He is a good kid. No needs to screw him. It's just an identity quest...normal for his age. He is not an angel....he is not evil...
The mother of the Gothic son and wife of the photographer here...
My husband being a francophone asked me to read all these comments to help him understand. This is were I'm stopping because finally something that we could relate to.
So glad you get it! Our son does not need straightening out or to go to a farm and he is not suffering more than any one else. He is simply experimenting and developing his identity. As you say, most people change between 15 and 21. We've explained to him that he should not go with piercing or tattoos until he is older, as they might limit his career choices and/or he might simply change and regret his choices.
Again as you say, we do not want to destroy our wonderful relationship with our son. We are letting him be who he wants to be. (sometime difficult for a parent...). This being said, we say NO an a regular basis. Being what you want to be does not mean doing all that you want, especially not at 14 years old.
We live in a very multicultural environment, Montreal/Laval, Québec. "Normal" or "standart" here, as many meaning as people come from all over the world and have many different religious backgrounds. Some families, like in the past, are happy and some are less. Some have problems and some are dysfunctional. We are teaching our son to express himself while keeping his values in mind and while respecting those of others. Until he will be an adult, we hope that he will keep changing "style" and exploring options. Hopefully, he will make choices (with our guidance) that will keep him safe and healthy. He is growing up exposed to different cultures - and to all types of music-. So, regardless of the labels that we give, we hope that we will be able to be graceful towards people that will judge him based on his appearance.
Now, can we go back to the portrait? And stay tuned. Our son might look very different in six months from now...
The only thing I want to know is which subculture he personally identifies as. But that's not really important, just a curiosity if HE says he is goth or something else.
...we do not want to destroy our wonderful relationship with our son. We are letting him be who he wants to be. (sometime difficult for a parent...). This being said, we say NO an a regular basis. Being what you want to be does not mean doing all that you want, especially not at 14 years old.
You sound like wonderful parents. He's a lucky kid.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?