My First Medium Format - What Should It Be?

runswithsizzers · Apr 4, 2019

Presently using a Mamiya C220 on loan from university for a medium format photography class. Love the big square negatives (but I don't love the waist level viewfinder with it's reversed image). Now I want to get a medium format film camera of my own.

I have a lot of experience with SLR film cameras in 135, but the Mamiya C220 is the only medium format camera I have ever used.

My predjuces and preferences are, in decreasing order:
- I am NOT looking for a TLR
- 6x6 or 645 format. definitely not looking for anything larger than 6x6
- moderate cost: I'd like to get a working camera and "normal" lens for around $400-450, US (less would be better)
- smaller and lighter prefered over bigger and heavier
- through-the-lens viewfinder prefered, the brighter the, the better
- OK image quality; I don't need the best, but hopefully no worse than the Mamiya C220. I will be shooting B&W, mostly
- minimal hassles: hope to avoid models which are known to jam frequently, take weird batteries, etc.

What I don't care about:
- no need for a bult-in light meter
- no need for a "deep" system; I may get one additional lens (wide angle) and a couple of filters but that's about it.
- synch speeds; I almost never use flash

So far my list includes
Pentax 645
Mamiya 645
Zenza Bronica - either 645 or 6x6
Kowa Six

Am I on the right track, or should I add / remove models from my list?

AgX · Apr 4, 2019

I think one major division should be between Leica- and Hasselblad-style of body, as this dictates handling.

By your listing you already made up your mind.

awty · Apr 4, 2019

Holga 120, and use the savings on beer and women or men.

campy51 · Apr 4, 2019

Bronica SQ-A with prism, speed grip, 80mm and 150mm most likely under $600.

Pentode · Apr 4, 2019

I think you’re on the right track. You just need to see which of those feels good to you. They’re all good quality machines and their available optics are quite good.

Just a thought: I don’t know if prism finders are available for those Mamiya TLRs but they are very good cameras with very good optics. Would they be less objectionable to you with a prism?

Kino · Apr 4, 2019

The Mamiya 645 probably best suits your criteria.

Kino · Apr 4, 2019

Pentode said:
I think you’re on the right track. You just need to see which of those feels good to you. They’re all good quality machines and their available optics are quite good.

Just a thought: I don’t know if prism finders are available for those Mamiya TLRs but they are very good cameras with very good optics. Would they be less objectionable to you with a prism?

Yes they exist... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porroflex-...m4b60ee042b:g:1xUAAOSw651cNBE-&frcectupt=true

Dan Daniel · Apr 4, 2019

Kowa 6 is a bit of an orphan, isn't it? The Pentax, Mamiya, and Bronicas are all common cameras. At this point in time, all three are basically the type you use until they break, then throw out and get a new one. And they are cheap enough to do this. Getting service will be hard. All have good lenses.

Medium format has capabilities and demands different than 35mm. So although an SLR may make a lot of sense at this time, realize that you might end up cycling through a few different types of medium format cameras over time. So my suggestion- get one, as soon as possible, and get shooting. Don't agonize the choice too much.

WilmarcoImaging · Apr 4, 2019

How sensitive to size and weight are you? Negative size produces better image quality.

Are you interested in the quality a 6x7 or 6x9 image gives you, vs a 6x6 negative?

Dali · Apr 4, 2019

Kino said:
The Mamiya 645 probably best suits your criteria.

It would also be my choice.

John51 · Apr 4, 2019

fwir, some 645s are landscape format. That would be a drag if most of your shots are portrait.

Are 645 and 6x6 backs available for the RB67?

narsuitus · Apr 4, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
I have a lot of experience with SLR film cameras in 135, but the Mamiya C220 is the only medium format camera I have ever used.

runswithsizzers said:
So far my list includes
Pentax 645
Mamiya 645
Zenza Bronica - either 645 or 6x6
Kowa Six

Back when I had a lot of experience with SLR film cameras, I used Mamiya C220, C22, and C3 TLR cameras.

I never considered 645 cameras because they were not available when I purchased my first medium format cameras.

Later, when I needed to replace my worn medium format cameras, I did not consider the 645 because for me, it was too close in size to my 35mm images. I decided to replace them with larger 6x7 and 6x9 cameras.

However, if I needed to replace my TLR film cameras today with the cameras on your list, I would select the 6x6 Zenza Bronica.

On the other hand, if I ever decided to get rid of all my 35mm cameras, I could easily use any of the 645 cameras on your list as my sole camera.

1kgcoffee · Apr 4, 2019

Kiev 6c or 60. You can find these serviced on ebay. You can have it and a normal lens for much less than your target.

runswithsizzers · Apr 4, 2019

AgX said:
I think one major division should be between Leica- and Hasselblad-style of body, as this dictates handling.

By your listing you already made up your mind.

I'm confused. When you say Leica-style do you mean like their medium format digital camera (SLR-style)? Or do you mean Leica's rangefinder-style 35mm film cameras?

The Hasselblad-style will probably work OK for me with some kind of eye-level / prisim viewfinder. I have not completely ruled out rangefinders, but only if I can't find something I like with through-the-lens viewing. I won't be doing macro-work with the medium format camera, but sometimes I do like to get close enough to start worrying about parallax error.

After almost 50 years of using nothing but 35mm SLRs, I adapted to the handling of the Mamiya TLR style without too much trouble EXCEPT I hate trying to compose with the viewfinder image reversed left-to-right. True, I have only shot about 15 rolls with the TLR, but I still struggle a lot with the left-is-right, right-is-left problem.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 4, 2019

Do you know you could have normal VF on TLR?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sogRF2Z14zp63E4a7

Mamiya 645J. It just simple and working camera. Not popular among gearheads, but will take pictures anyway.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EVhmE2Sok5Atf7BX7

runswithsizzers · Apr 4, 2019

Dan Daniel said:
Kowa 6 is a bit of an orphan, isn't it? The Pentax, Mamiya, and Bronicas are all common cameras. At this point in time, all three are basically the type you use until they break, then throw out and get a new one. And they are cheap enough to do this. Getting service will be hard. All have good lenses.

Medium format has capabilities and demands different than 35mm. So although an SLR may make a lot of sense at this time, realize that you might end up cycling through a few different types of medium format cameras over time. So my suggestion- get one, as soon as possible, and get shooting. Don't agonize the choice too much.

Yes, I noticed the Kowas are less common on the auction site. Not sure if that is good or bad. Are you saying the difference between the Kowa 6 and the others is that service is more readily available for some reason? Or less commonly needed?

MattKing · Apr 4, 2019

Kino said:
Yes they exist... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porroflex-...m4b60ee042b:g:1xUAAOSw651cNBE-&frcectupt=true

You don't want a porroflex.
You want a prism finder. They are heavier than the porroflex, but smaller, and they provide a laterally correct image.
Here is me with one on my C330:

MattKing · Apr 4, 2019

If I were you I would look at either the Mamiya TLRs with a prism finder, or a later version of the Mamiya 645 that offers interchangeable film backs or a Bronica Etr series 645.

guangong · Apr 4, 2019

Kowas are noted for their unreliability. With some searching you can get a Hasselblad 500C or CM body for about $300+-, and an80mm lens for another $150. I did. Try KEH ugly classification. A Russian prism finder will work. You will never need another MF camera. I wouldn’t judge TWR cameras by Mamiya. Look at Minolta, or, though more expensive, Rolleiflex.
I would try to hold and play with a camera before buying. In my opinion, the cameras on your list are kind of klunky to handle. Of course, this is one man’s opinion, and you may have a different reaction. That’s why there was more than one camera manufacturer.

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 4, 2019

Get back to the ancient roots of photography for perspective. A 6x6/6x7/6x.5/6x9 (aka multiformat) pinhole camera e.g. ZeroImage 69. No only is there no light meter, batteries or jams, there is no lens either: you are the camera's eyes.

No? Pentax 67 or 67ii. Crop to 6x6 (or any other size) from anywhere in a truly BIG frame.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 4, 2019

Low cost 6x6 format SLRs:

- Kiev 88

- Pentacon Six

KN4SMF · Apr 4, 2019

I recommend against a Hasselblad unless you are willing to send it for service, unless the previous owner can prove that they did. We're dealing with a first-timer here, with a budget. A Mamiya M645 with a finder is a fine choice. Very much like a 35mm in use, with a bigger negative.

Kino · Apr 4, 2019

Theo Sulphate said:
Low cost 6x6 format SLRs:

- Kiev 88

- Pentacon Six

Love my Kiev 88, but you must be very methodical to load the magazines to get consistent spacing and to avoid damaging the winding mechanism.

If you try to run it like a Hasselblad, you'll wind up with a box of stripped gears and/or overlapping images, but the lenses are fantastic.

Did I mention the leather smells like 7 kinds of Hell?

runswithsizzers · Apr 4, 2019

Thanks to all for suggestions!

The Mamiya 645 goes to the top of the list, followed by some kind of Bronica(?) I need to do my homework to see what kind of variation there is between individual models.

I assume a Bronica with a waist-level focusing screen is going to suffer from the same left-to-right reversed viewfinder image as the TLR. Can I also assume that adding a prism finder eliminates that problem?

Adding a prism finder to a TLR would be a "last resort" option for me - something to investigate only after I've ruled out all potential cameras which offer through-the-lens viewfinders.

I am surprised no one seems to care much about the Pentax 645.

mshchem · Apr 4, 2019

campy51 said:
Bronica SQ-A with prism, speed grip, 80mm and 150mm most likely under $600.

+1 or Bronica ETRSi with the speed winder and non metered prism. Super inexpensive, available, shoots like a 35mm. 645 negative is just big enough. 15 shots per roll.

My First Medium Format - What Should It Be?

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